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Thanks everyone for some interesting correspondence about this specimen. I had contacted Nigel to ask if the microfossil data was foraminifera, ostracods or palynology. He suggested forams and ostracods had been looked for.

If some dinoflagellates could be found then we could provide answers for some of these questions. Nigel, would you be able to provide us with some fine grained matrix for us to analyse? From the picture it looks quite coarse grained with some finer parts. You’d need to get fine grained material if there is any.

All the best,

Giles

From: The Geological Curator's Group mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Petkovski Steven
Sent: 29 June 2017 08:06
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: ichthyosaur with dubious provenance but distinctive preservation [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

Hi Nigel,

I’ve got our palaeontologist Natalie to have a look at the photos… here is her two cents worth.

The preservation does look a lot like some of the ichthyosaur/plesiosaur/turtle material from around Boulia (SW Queensland), which would make it early Cretaceous (Albian, ~100 mya.) If so, how it found its way to Carlisle would be another mystery, but - stranger things have happened!

If the matrix is limestone (which it probably would be, if it's from Queensland), it etches nicely in dilute acetic acid, with beautiful, 3D results. I've prepared quite a bit of this stuff, so am happy to provide any tips/techniques, if it is in limestone, and if the interest and resources are there.

There's only one ichthyosaur from the Cretaceous of Australia, it's Platypterigius australis, but whether the specimen can be shown to be this critter is uncertain. I'm not sure there's anything diagnostic amongst the bones, but this ref:

KEAR, B.P., 2016. Cretaceous marine amniotes of Australia: perspectives on a decade of new research. Memoirs of Museum Victoria, 74 could be a good place to start looking, it has all the relevant references for the critters of this age and area.

Regards,

Steven Petkovski | Curator, National Mineral and Fossil Collection

Governance and Business Services | Corporate Services

National Mineral & Fossil Collection on Google Arts & Culture

t +61 2 6249 9303 www.ga.gov.au

From: The Geological Curator's Group mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jon Radley
Sent: Wednesday, 28 June 2017 5:43 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: ichthyosaur with dubious provenance but distinctive preservation

Hi Nigel,

Does the slab look like it's been lifted from a quarry or from among foreshore rubble? Air-weathered and/or slightly water-worn? As you know it's so difficult to be confident from photos alone, but it does remind me a little of pre-Planorbis slabs I've seen from the intertidal at Aust and other locs along the N Somerset coast.

Guess you've checked out

2. Binney E. W.

1859. Notice of Lias Deposits at Quarry-Gill and other places near Carlisle. Quarterly Journal of the Geological Society of London 15,549–551.

There's also a review of the subsurface Carlisle succession by Hugh Ivimey-Cook et al., PYGS 1995. Some of the references therein might be useful?

Hope this helps,

Jon

Jon Radley

Curator of Natural Sciences

Heritage & Culture Warwickshire (HCW)

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On 27 June 2017 at 20:53, Nigel Larkin <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Dear colleagues,

Enclosed are three photographs of a small partial ichthyosaur skeleton that is
in the collection of the Tullie House Museum in Carlisle. In the mid-1970s it
was found in the soil of a garden near Carlisle – so obviously it could be
from anywhere.

If it is local it would be a very early specimen, potentially from the Upper
Triassic. Yet its preservation and host matrix is not familiar to anyone who
has seen it. Whilst there are clearly some macro invertebrates preserved in
the matrix, they have proved impossible to identify due to poor preservation.
Similarly, samples of the matrix have been analysed for microfossils but none
are preserved so the specimen cannot be dated that way.

Do you recognize the matrix or the preservation of the fossil? Do you know
where it might be from? If so, please get in touch off-list. Any thoughts are
welcome.

Thank you for your help. With best wishes, Nigel.

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