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Dear Gunnar, Yes, everything you say is true enough except that students are actually gaming everything you say so that they are trusting that we (we academics) donıt see their game. We act in good faith; they play a game. It is childish, on their part, to presume we have their best interest at heart. My interests are only academic. Like Turnitin or not, we have a huge conflict in Australia with our privacy laws (think Patriot Act). And, my uni has ended up in a corruption commission that led to the sacking of several senior members of staff, so, we HAVE to use Turnitin. keith On 6/3/17, 1:51 am, "PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design on behalf of Heidi Overhill" <[log in to unmask] on behalf of [log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >>On Mar 4, 2017, at 10:09 PM, Keith Russell >><[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>The second type is where they have gone over the muddle and normalised >>it somewhat. Some of the software will take you through the text line by >>line, offering variations as you go. > >GS: >(Other than what seems like a cynical attitude on the part of the >student/writer, I wonder how this differs from writing drafts that are >marked by the subject instructor and/or a writing instructor, then >revised.) > >KR: >>Because Turnitin is set up at my uni to allow multiple resubmission, >>students can then make further changes, unseen by me, that reduces the >>percentage to around 15 or less. Very few lectures look at 15%. > >GS: >I have to shake my head when I hear people talking about Turnitin >percentages as if that were a measure of anything important. Thatıs not >just a failure of software. Itıs a conceptual failure of the people >setting "standards." > >KR: >>Even when the paragraph blocks are identical in conceptual content, >>Turnitin will not show up the similarity if just a few words are moved >>around. > >GS: >Part of the problem here is that people stress the need for originality >and confuse that with issues of plagiarism. It would be difficult, but it >is possible to write a non-plagiarized piece without a bit of "original" >verbiage. No need to move words around. Just write "As Keith Russell >tells us. . ." and append a footnote at the end. Whatıs up with all of >this obsession about making things similar yet perfectly dissimilar? > >>On Mar 4, 2017, at 11:17 PM, Terence Love <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>It's now more than 5 years since computerised essay marking systems >>became >>mainstream and more accurate than human essay markers. Giving the AI an >>ability to test for similarity of essays for sale is likely to be >>straightforward. > >GS: >Turnitin and such do compare. Your question presumes an essay for sale on >the open market to multiple customers (thus available for testing.) If >someone is writing a custom essay for sale, there is nothing to compare. > ----------------------------------------------------------------- PhD-Design mailing list <[log in to unmask]> Discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design Subscribe or Unsubscribe at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/phd-design -----------------------------------------------------------------