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Dear Ken Indeed! Jokes can do many things - from opening up a discourse to shutting one down. Let us selected our fools carefully. I very much appreciate the links you have provided. The School I am in is becoming a NEW school of Creative Industries - it will be welcomed this very afternoon. Colleagues from Communication are just now sending each other papers that talk to the issues we have touched on here. One of the papers raises literature about the uses of nostalgia in scholarly communities. http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0038026116681439 Nostalgia can be used, it argues, to soften the blow and make us all feel better. And/or nostalgia can be used to promote a re-evaluation of what is going on with the purpose of establishing - re-establishing the perceived values. Another aspects talked about is Authenticity. When I put these together I get a sentimentalising of the experience of TRYING. We all tried to understand. We all tried to solve cancer. We all tried very very very very hard. We all once were intellectual try-hard warriors. What we look back to is TRYING and what we look forward to is being allowed to continue TRYING - because we are so good at TRYING?. I take Socrates/Plato and Aristotle to be about FINDING rather than TRYING. Who cares about TRYING? Sure, you will not get anywhere without perseverance - that is a given. But those who FIND donıt care about the TRYING they experienced in order to FIND. (Do or do not - there is no try!) If youıve pulled the sword out of the rock - get on with the future! Cheers On 23/2/17, 8:48 pm, "PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design on behalf of Ken Friedman" <[log in to unmask] on behalf of [log in to unmask]> wrote: >Dear Keith, > >You wrote: ³If so much of our reasoning is social then we might establish >social relations which are based on finding errors in our thinking. >Following Socrates and Aristotle, thatıs what universities could look >like.² > >True enough. To establish this form of university requires more than >jokes. At least it does if we are too hope for something more than the >managerial university. An increasingly large group of administrators run >the world's universities on the model of a profitable for-profit >business. In such universities, administrators now outnumber researchers >and teachers. Beyond this, massive amounts of teaching are done by >part-time and adjunct teachers on course-by-course contracts. In this >context, itıs easy to laugh at a good joke while overlooking the deeper >problems that work against the Socratic or Aristotelian model university >that you propose. ----------------------------------------------------------------- PhD-Design mailing list <[log in to unmask]> Discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design Subscribe or Unsubscribe at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/phd-design -----------------------------------------------------------------