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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture My first thought was that the eggs could be hardboiled. Dorothy Owen offered this anecdote of hardboiled Easter eggs regarded with suspicion back in 1972. The report of Bishop Buckingham comes from the 1380s or 90s. “John, etc. . . . to my dear son William, rector of the church of Nettleham, which is of my collation and in my diocese. . . . I heard some time ago that in your church, the cure of which I entrusted to you, a very foul abuse, hateful to God, has blinded the minds of your parishioners so that in the most holy ceremonies of Easter, when the sacrifice of the Spotless Lamb, that is, of Christ the Redeemer of mankind, having been offered on the altar, is distributed to the faithful, before the body and blood have been tasted they each year cause to be blessed solemnly by the priest, in church, swine’s flesh commonly called Bacun, (which the Chosen People in the Old Testament were forbidden to eat because it was impure) and many shelled hardboiled eggs. These, which are provided at your expense, are carried to every house in the parish as a sort of holy offering, to the great scandal and dishonor of the Church of Christ and its sacraments, to the danger of the souls of these idolaters and, by example, to the souls of others.” Dorothy M. Owen, “Bacon and Eggs: Bishop Buckingham and Superstition in Lincolnshire,” Popular Belief and Practice (Studies in Church History, v. 8, 1972, pp. 139-44) On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 4:10 PM, Jane Stemp Wickenden < [log in to unmask]> wrote: > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > Eggs can be preserved in isinglass, a product of the boiled swim-bladders > of fish - but I don't know when this started and don't trust the > Wiki-answer. There is also egg tempera paint, egg-white for glazing > frescos, and invalid diets. > > Perhaps they just hard-boiled them and kept them cold until Lent was over > .... > > Jane > > On 24 February 2017 18:58:57 GMT+00:00, Kurt Sherry < > [log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture >> I've always wondered about the eggs, too. Maybe they allowed more of the >> eggs laid during the fast to be fertilized for the next generation of >> chickens? >> >> I know that in the Byzantine world, hard-boiled eggs dyed red are given >> out as a blessing on Pascha. The tradition is for people to smash their >> eggs together, one saying "Christ is risen!" and the other giving the >> "Indeed, He is risen!" response like a tournament and the person whose egg >> survives through the end "wins." Thus, the idea is that you break your fast >> with the egg. In Syrian tradition, Lazarus Saturday (the day before Palm >> Sunday) is a big festival day for children (my bishop always hosts a giant >> party with a petting zoo and the whole works, including egg hunts for the >> kids). Supposedly, in the old country, children go house-to-house, rather >> like trick-or-treating, collecting eggs to boil and dye for Pascha (another >> version I've heard is that they go hunting for eggs since they use >> free-range chickens and free-range children). >> >> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Rosemary Hayes-Milligan and Andrew >> Milligan <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and >>> culture >>> Many thanks indeed to Kurt, Stephen, Vera and Jaye for all the extra >>> information. My initial query perhaps did not make sufficiently clear that >>> I knew that carnival was about saying farewell to flesh and other pleasures >>> before Lent as I do know about the late medieval and modern practice of the >>> Western Church. Indeed, I often bore the family with the fact that, in >>> eating pancakes on Shrove Tuesday (interesting the English talk about >>> shriving while others have 'Fat Tuesday') we are saying farewell to the >>> 'lacticinia'. I wonder what they did with all those eggs they couldn't >>> eat? - Easy enough to preserve milk by making cheese and butter, but eggs? >>> >>> However, I did not know that the Lenten fast of the catechumens went >>> back so early in the Church's history and I am very grateful to Kurt for >>> the Byzantine perspective. I have noted how much more seriously my >>> Orthodox friends seem to take fasting than we in the West. >>> >>> Thank you Vera for the Cologne information. >>> >>> Grateful best wishes, >>> Rosemary >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> *From:* Kurt Sherry <[log in to unmask]> >>> *To:* [log in to unmask] >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 21, 2017 4:31 PM >>> *Subject:* Re: [M-R] origins of carnival, Lent, etc >>> >>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and >>> culture >>> I come from a Byzantine perspective, so my comments might be a bit >>> different. Sorry it's so long, but I tried to write it so that the most >>> relevant parts come first, so you can stop reading, kind of like a news >>> story. >>> >>> Mardi Gras/Carnival things might well derive from some pre-Christian >>> fertility festivals and the like, but it could also have come from the >>> simple practice of eating up all of the non-fasting foods and getting in >>> all the sex you can before you have to start fasting (one Greek priest I >>> knew once referred to Lent as "the lentil period"). Of course, there's also >>> the instinctive tendency to want to up the ante and make the party bigger >>> than it was last year, and things could easily be more bacchanalian in >>> contexts in which the people involved are actually less pious to begin >>> with, so it provides a good excuse. >>> >>> My understanding of the origins of Lent is that it was a practice in the >>> early Church that catechumens were asked to fast for 40 days (evoking >>> Jesus' 40 days in the Transjordan, Moses's 40 days on the mountain, the >>> Israelites' 40 years in the desert) to prepare for their baptisms on Great >>> and Holy Saturday (I think this was later extended to Advent since >>> Theophany is another major day for baptism of converts). At some point >>> (presumably in the 4th or 5th century), the Church decided it would be a >>> good idea if everyone did it (whether it was a spirit of solidarity matter >>> or simply the recognition that those who were already Christian tend to get >>> kind of sloppy and need a good refresher). >>> >>> In the Orthodox world, the specific rules of what is and isn't fasting >>> are subject to a lot of local variation (e.g., Carpatho-Russians allow fish >>> during fasts, native Alaskans don't abstain from meat because they would >>> probably end up starving to death--there's an incident in the journals of >>> St. Yakov Netsvetov on this), but I follow the Byzantine/Greek practice of >>> nothing from a critter with a backbone (no meat, no dairy, no eggs, no >>> fish) as well as abstention from wine and olive oil. People don't like to >>> mention it, but marital relations are also in the fasting guidelines (I >>> noticed once that Jim Brundage noted sex as subject to the fasting rules >>> during Advent and Lent for the West in his book, but he never mentioned it >>> in class that I can recall). There's also a tradition of not eating until >>> after the ninth hour (3 pm), which I actually try to observe (though not >>> always successfully) during the week, but not on weekends. >>> >>> In the Byzantine tradition, Lent is the 40 days before Holy Week (so we >>> start on what's called Clean Monday with the service of Forgiveness Vespers >>> in the evening of the Sunday of the Expulsion from Paradise--the Orthodox >>> liturgical day begins at sundown, but the fasting day begins at midnight). >>> There is katalysis (a relaxation of the rules) for Saturdays and Sundays, >>> which allows for olive oil and wine on the weekends. There is a tradition >>> of trying to kick Lent off by being hardcore and not eating anything for >>> the first three days until after the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts on >>> Clean Wednesday evening. There is also katalysis for the Annunciation >>> (allowing even fish!). Holy Week, while technically separate (and >>> liturgically really wild), follows the fasting rules for Lent (Great and >>> Holy Saturday is the only Saturday of the year for which there is no >>> katalysis and it's a strict fast). >>> >>> Furthermore, the Church thought it was a good idea to provide a >>> "pre-season" to get people ready for Lent, called Triodion. There's even a >>> little warning day (Zacchaeus Sunday) before Triodion actually starts. The >>> first week of Triodion is the week following the Sunday of the Parable of >>> the Publican and Pharisee; this is one of four much-anticipated fast-free >>> weeks (a reminder that the Pharisee's boast includes that he fasts twice a >>> week, so a subtle reminder of the importance of humility rather than >>> ascetic feats), so we can eat meat on Wednesday and Friday. Then, there's >>> the Sunday of Parable of the Prodigal Son (so a call to remember the mercy >>> of God and to repent), which is a normal week (fasting on Wednesday and >>> Friday). This past Sunday was the Sunday of the Last Judgment (so we get >>> the heavy dose of liturgical reminders of the justice of God and a call to >>> repentance), which is also called Meatfare (i.e., last chance to eat meat >>> until Pascha), which ushers in what's called Cheesefare week (we can have >>> dairy, eggs, and fish all week long, even on Wednesday and Friday). Then, >>> the final Sunday is the Sunday of the Expulsion from Paradise (a pretty >>> heavy punch in the gut about the consequences of sin), which is also called >>> Cheesefare Sunday (because we have to finish up all of our dairy because we >>> can't have it until Pascha) and also Forgiveness Sunday (the vespers that >>> evening, which is the vespers for Clean Monday to start Lent, has a big >>> rite in which everyone in attendance asks the forgiveness of everyone else, >>> beginning with the priest, in order to start Lent in a spirit of having >>> lain aside all resentments and so on, but it also derives from the practice >>> of at least one Palestinian monastery where the brotherhood scattered to >>> the wilderness for the duration of Lent, see the Life of St. Mary of Egypt >>> for that). >>> >>> Sorry about the length of the reply. It's an elaborate matter. >>> >>> Kurt >>> >>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 8:29 AM, Stephen Morris < >>> [log in to unmask]> wrote: >>> >>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and >>>> culture >>>> Rosemary: >>>> >>>> The word "carnival" itself is about giving up *carne* (meat) for the >>>> next few weeks. During the fast, the Church asked her children to give up >>>> violence by not eating anything that needed to be killed (i.e. all animal >>>> products) and thus restore the harmony of mankind and the world; humans >>>> were to eat the fruits and vegetables that Adam ate in Paradise. >>>> (Permission was not given for humanity to eat meat until after the Flood, >>>> apparently.) >>>> >>>> The fast was part-and-parcel of the preparation of the catechumens >>>> (people preparing to convert) who were scheduled to be baptized at the >>>> Easter Vigil. The fast was observed by the catechumens and their godparents >>>> and was quickly extended to all the faithful who were expected to support >>>> the catechumens in their preparation as well as renew their own dedication >>>> to the life expected of the baptized. (We have first century reference to >>>> the pre-baptismal fast.) >>>> >>>> Adult penitents were also admitted to the last stage of their >>>> re-integration into the life of the Church during the fast before Easter. >>>> (They had committed such public offenses against communal expectations that >>>> demanded public restoration of communion with the community.) In western >>>> Christian practice, they were dressed in sackcloth and ashes on the first >>>> day of the fast (which was a Wednesday in Western practice) and then >>>> readmitted to communion on Maundy Thursday. >>>> >>>> Hope this helps. >>>> >>>> Stephen >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Storm Wolf >>>> <https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_13?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=storm+wolf+morris&sprefix=storm+wolf+mo%2Cstripbooks%2C165&rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3Astorm+wolf+morris> >>>> available NOW! >>>> www.stephenmorrisauthor.com >>>> www.whenbrothersdwellinunity.com >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From:* Jaye Procure <[log in to unmask]> >>>> *To:* [log in to unmask] >>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 21, 2017 9:05 AM >>>> *Subject:* Re: [M-R] origins of carnival, Lent, etc >>>> >>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and >>>> culture >>>> The word Lent comes from the old English word for lengthen, as the days >>>> are getting longer at this part of the year (in the Northern Hemisphere). >>>> I suspect that is where the 'pagan origins' come from, although I have >>>> never come across that 'origin' in relation to Lent in my reading. >>>> >>>> The 40 days are significant because that signals something momentous. >>>> Interestingly, 40 days is also enough to form new habits, so there may be a >>>> psychological bent there as well. >>>> >>>> Carnival, or Mardi Gras is the day when food forbidden in Lent is used >>>> up...meat, eggs, butter, etc. The Orthodox and Eastern Rite churches still >>>> fast strictly during Lent. The western Church has modified significantly. >>>> >>>> Sundays are not included, officially, in the fast. >>>> >>>> I am working from my own memory at the moment so forgive early morning >>>> lapses. I am not teaching this year... >>>> >>>> Jaye >>>> >>>> On Feb 21, 2017 8:48 AM, "Rosemary Hayes-Milligan and Andrew Milligan" < >>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>> >>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and >>>> culture >>>> I hope you will forgive an idle query. My son, who is studying in >>>> Europe, is planning to go to 'carnival' in Cologne. While telling us, he >>>> mentioned Catholic and pagan origins. I responded with a bit about Lent in >>>> the late medieval period but realised that I don't really know too much >>>> about actual origins. >>>> >>>> My knowledge goes as far as the rains of Noah's flood lasting for 40 >>>> days, the Jews wandering in the desert for 40 years and Jesus fasting there >>>> for 40 days, replicated by the Church's 40 days of fasting and abstinence >>>> before Holy Week. >>>> >>>> Do we know when it all actually began in the Church; and is he right to >>>> suggest a pagan background? Or is the tradition of a feast before a fast >>>> wholly Judeo-Christian in origin? >>>> >>>> many thanks, >>>> Rosemary Hayes >>>> >>>> Dr RCE Hayes >>>> 18 Murrayfield Drive >>>> Edinburgh >>>> EH12 6EB >>>> >>>> 0131 337 1385 >>>> [log in to unmask] >>>> >>>> ********************************************************************** >>> To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME >>> to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it >>> to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the >>> message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In >>> order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >>> [log in to unmask] For further information, visit >>> our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion >> >> >> ********************************************************************** >> To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME >> to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it >> to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the >> message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In >> order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >> [log in to unmask] For further information, visit >> our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion > > > -- > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > ********************************************************************** To > join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: > [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: > [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: > unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to > report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: > [log in to unmask] For further information, visit > our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion -- John Shinners Professor, Schlesinger Chair in Humanistic Studies Saint Mary's College Notre Dame, Indiana 46556 Phone: 574-284-4494 or 574-284-4534 Fax: 284-4855 www.saintmarys.edu/~hust "Learn everything. Later you will see that nothing is superfluous." -- Hugh of St. Victor (d. 1141) ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion