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Sorry all, this will be my last email. Yes Google Scholar has many problems and transparency is one of them, but please can we stop creating myths like this? Citations do not mythically go down "automatically" if you create a new profile unless you actually include different works. I am not saying Ian's experience isn't real, but there is likely to be an idiosyncratic reason for this. It doesn't mean that this can be generalised into a common pattern. We are researchers and research librarians, not journalists or politicians! In more than 10 years of technical support for Publish or Perish I have yet to find a Google Scholar "quirk" that didn't have a logical explanation at its core. Best wishes, Anne-Wil **Web: www.harzing.com <http://www.harzing.com> - Twitter: @awharzing <https://twitter.com/awharzing> New: Latest blogpost <http://www.harzing.com/blog/.latest?redirect> - Surprise: Random blogpost <http://www.harzing.com/blog/.random> Latest*: Publish or Perish v5 is now out! <http://www.harzing.com/blog/2016/10/publish-or-perish-version-5>** <http://www.harzing.com/publications/publish-or-perish-book/tutorial>* On 08/02/2017 12:52, Elizabeth Gadd wrote: > > Ian – that’s really worth knowing. > > It chimes with another query I had recently where someone had changed > their name and was struggling to get GS to recognise their > publications under a previous name, and their publications under a new > one. Thankfully I suggested they edited their name in the hope that > when they then went to “Add publications” it would suggest papers that > matched their new name not their old one which they could then add. > Failing that, they could add their papers manually, and hopefully GS > would use their latest papers to automatically harvest the right ones > in future. It sounds like if I’d suggested starting a new profile it > might have lost some of the earlier data. Pure luck! > > I don’t think I’ll be trying your experiment though! > > Lizzie > > *From:*A bibliometrics discussion list for the Library and Research > Community [mailto:[log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of > *Rowlands, Ian > *Sent:* 08 February 2017 12:16 > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* Re: Dealing with Google Scholar Citation errors > > I’ve been lurking on this thread because the point I wanted to raise > about GS citation profiles was rather different, and I didn’t want to > divert from a very interesting exchange … > > I set up a profile some time ago, probably 6-7 years back. I recently > moved to a new institution and thought I’d better change my > affiliation. Not straightforward because the email account I > verified from initially has of course now lapsed. So, I created a new > one from scratch, and then got an email from GS saying I had > duplicates, which one did I want to delete? The old one. > > The citation count in the new profile is down about 15%. I assume > that’s because I’ve been out of research for a while and GS can only > scrape what’s available on the web. I assume that GS counts the > citations it finds cumulatively, so even if the underlying material > disappears, the counter and associated metrics stay where they are. > > So two lessons. The first is to set up your GS profile as soon as > possible, preferably some years ago! The second lesson, if my > analysis is correct, is that the headline metrics gradually become > decoupled from the underlying data as it disappears from the web. > There’s a transparency issue here and a lack of traceability that > could become quite serious over time. > > You can of course try this experiment for yourselves. Create a new GS > profile and see whether the metrics have changed? > > Ian > > *From:*A bibliometrics discussion list for the Library and Research > Community [mailto:[log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of > *Elizabeth Gadd > *Sent:* 08 February 2017 10:59 > *To:* [log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > *Subject:* Re: Dealing with Google Scholar Citation errors > > Thank you all for your responses. So it sounds as though there is no > real source of troubleshooting on GS other than Lis-Bibliometrics! I > think our problems began by encouraging all staff to create GS > profiles. As is often the way, it is the PhD students who are the > most keen to engage with new initiatives and then those with Asian > names fell foul of the author disambiguation problem. Be careful of > what you wish for… > > Lizzie > > *From:*A bibliometrics discussion list for the Library and Research > Community [mailto:[log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of > *Anne-Wil Harzing > *Sent:* 07 February 2017 11:47 > *To:* [log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > *Subject:* Re: Dealing with Google Scholar Citation errors > > Lizzie, > > Tricky problem! > > @Chris: Yes, having an ORCID is good and everyone should have one, but > IMHO it will be many years before this helps author disambiguation in > GS (or Scopus/ISI for that matter!). Try searching for an Asian author > in ISI. Did you know the top 1000 most productive academics are all > Asian? [Not really of course]. For details see: > > http://www.harzing.com/blog/2016/05/health-warning-might-contain-multiple-personalities > <https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.harzing.com%2Fblog%2F2016%2F05%2Fhealth-warning-might-contain-multiple-personalities&data=01%7C01%7Cian.rowlands%40KCL.AC.UK%7C3f36eeccb94a41c47bc308d450118820%7C8370cf1416f34c16b83c724071654356%7C0&sdata=ofiupIIQ5oIamUpqthYe6CQaHMd5HnXLVhNUDQSzbBI%3D&reserved=0> > > Google Scholar Profiles do NOT appear out of the blue sky. They are > created by authors and it is the responsibility of the authors to keep > them clean. A very simple solution is to hammer home that they should > click the box to have the profiles updated MANUALLY not automatically, > so that any addition MUST be screened by the author before it is added > to the profile. Most of the time academics are either just a bit lazy > or ignorant and don't know this updating option can be changed. > > Contacting GS is not going to help you, my prediction is there is a > 99% likelihood they won't respond. In this case, I would say rightly > so, it is the responsibility of the academics who have created the > profile to manage it and keep it clean, it is not their > responsibility. If Thomson Reuthers/Clarivate and Elsevier can't even > manage to do this whilst charging huge subscription fees, you cannnot > expect a free service to do so. > > Alan: your email just came in as I was writing this. My experience is > identical to yours. In fact, I have to submit data change reports to > TR/Clarivate for their Cited Reference reports virtually every week > and the problem is often as simple as a publication referenced as AW > Harzing vs. A Harzing with EVERYTHING else on the paper identical. > > Best wishes, Anne-Wil > > *Web: www.harzing.com > <https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.harzing.com&data=01%7C01%7Cian.rowlands%40KCL.AC.UK%7C3f36eeccb94a41c47bc308d450118820%7C8370cf1416f34c16b83c724071654356%7C0&sdata=EJUn7TA6c4I%2F2ngQYXhvtJzHXJwn31wj%2Bvx8DCl%2BWHc%3D&reserved=0> > - Twitter: @awharzing > <https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fawharzing&data=01%7C01%7Cian.rowlands%40KCL.AC.UK%7C3f36eeccb94a41c47bc308d450118820%7C8370cf1416f34c16b83c724071654356%7C0&sdata=1QMmk0eOYORkmnaGYMmPV%2B1M7jC5Zh5dQFXoHg2R5ak%3D&reserved=0> > New: Latest blogpost > <https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.harzing.com%2Fblog%2F.latest%3Fredirect&data=01%7C01%7Cian.rowlands%40KCL.AC.UK%7C3f36eeccb94a41c47bc308d450118820%7C8370cf1416f34c16b83c724071654356%7C0&sdata=iivLBtWu7O4ATRND48LVOA0FKPR%2FQEUMDT603vCfM8Y%3D&reserved=0> > - Surprise: Random blogpost > <https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.harzing.com%2Fblog%2F.random&data=01%7C01%7Cian.rowlands%40KCL.AC.UK%7C3f36eeccb94a41c47bc308d450118820%7C8370cf1416f34c16b83c724071654356%7C0&sdata=enkhXWDjuOi3Dx9sgTKSFBJho7jR%2BAw9Tczntb%2F%2BfDw%3D&reserved=0> > Latest: Publish or Perish v5 is now out! > <https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.harzing.com%2Fblog%2F2016%2F10%2Fpublish-or-perish-version-5&data=01%7C01%7Cian.rowlands%40KCL.AC.UK%7C3f36eeccb94a41c47bc308d450118820%7C8370cf1416f34c16b83c724071654356%7C0&sdata=zDfCrp8SAAfuSLRIsARHXJAHGzNu46Bwonv6VIIik8w%3D&reserved=0>* > > On 07/02/2017 11:39, Alan Dix wrote: > > I recall some years ago, when Google scholar was still young, > comparing lists of my own publications at GS and Web of Science. > > They found different publications, but at that point *both* had > problems - WoS was particularly bad at identifying the same author > on different papers spelled differently (initials, vs fullness, > second forename, etc.) so had a lot of false negatives, however > both also had false positives. > > I'm sure both will have improved and as you note Chris ORCID will > eventually help both, but certainly at that point WoS had its one > data integrity problems. For finding citations for a paper, I > have confidence in both GS & WoS, and Scopus identifying the > publication reasonably well, but for identifying authors I'd treat > any simple league tables with a pinch of salt. > > Alan > > On 7 February 2017 at 11:13, Christian Pietsch > <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: > > Dear Lizzie, > dear all, > > On Tue, Feb 07, 2017 at 10:35:09AM +0000, Elizabeth Gadd wrote: > > My more specific question is whether anyone has had an issue with > > their institutional ranking on Google Scholar (where you search for > > an institution and it lists all the academics associated with that > > institution in rank order by citation count)? Because of the > > age-old author disambiguation problem, we have quite a few PhD > > students with common Asian names appearing in our Top 10 author list > > who have had papers erroneously assigned to them, thus falsely > > inflating their citation count. This is causing some disgruntlement > > amongst those usurped of a Top 10 place! I think the only way of > > fixing this is to ask the individuals involved to remove the > > erroneous papers, however, this is challenging when the individuals > > have left. > > Bear in mind that you cannot force people to have a Google account. > Without a Google account, they probably cannot fix that list directly. > > One thing you could try is to encourage people to get an ORCID. This > may help Google and others to disambiguate author names eventually. > > Other than that, I'm afraid all you can do now is to educate your > patrons about Google's bad data quality. They simply must not base any > decisions on this. > > Cheers, > Chris > > -- > Christian Pietsch · http://purl.org/net/pietsch > <https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fpurl.org%2Fnet%2Fpietsch&data=01%7C01%7Cian.rowlands%40KCL.AC.UK%7C3f36eeccb94a41c47bc308d450118820%7C8370cf1416f34c16b83c724071654356%7C0&sdata=yo3owIotg229ATceRVLNaqjnLgU%2BSZrUUohTx1RcqDU%3D&reserved=0> > / involved in > – Bielefeld Academic Search Engine: https://base-search.net > <https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbase-search.net&data=01%7C01%7Cian.rowlands%40KCL.AC.UK%7C3f36eeccb94a41c47bc308d450118820%7C8370cf1416f34c16b83c724071654356%7C0&sdata=JBWnOOrplc99HLVyy2yt2r3lonro4RZ%2B6fOT%2FkvlqmQ%3D&reserved=0> > – ORCID DE (spreading ORCID in Germany; see https://orcid.org/ > <https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F&data=01%7C01%7Cian.rowlands%40KCL.AC.UK%7C3f36eeccb94a41c47bc308d450118820%7C8370cf1416f34c16b83c724071654356%7C0&sdata=yXX0QTLdWeirC7U5lXzvJfH2n9gEpWs94yAKL1A95AE%3D&reserved=0>) > at Bielefeld University Library, Bielefeld, Germany > > > > -- > > Professor Alan Dix > > University of Birmingham, UK > > and > > Talis, Birmingham, UK > > web: http://www.alandix.com/ > <https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alandix.com%2F&data=01%7C01%7Cian.rowlands%40KCL.AC.UK%7C3f36eeccb94a41c47bc308d450118820%7C8370cf1416f34c16b83c724071654356%7C0&sdata=IeF72w2MCptQfZaO0VTz351C1K%2FoHRtnQVPeq3T9dg8%3D&reserved=0> > > blog: http://www.alandix.com/blog/ > <https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alandix.com%2Fblog%2F&data=01%7C01%7Cian.rowlands%40KCL.AC.UK%7C3f36eeccb94a41c47bc308d450118820%7C8370cf1416f34c16b83c724071654356%7C0&sdata=gR37UVt74t4FD1uH8upfCt%2B5ypjSWpW6WNSxd077WLw%3D&reserved=0> > > Alan walks Wales: http://www.alandix.com/alanwalkswales > <https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alandix.com%2Falanwalkswales&data=01%7C01%7Cian.rowlands%40KCL.AC.UK%7C3f36eeccb94a41c47bc308d450118820%7C8370cf1416f34c16b83c724071654356%7C0&sdata=vGJ3RmlmnEnZee7uc%2BPxaBEQgAWf2RnxVCYB5W%2FZMEA%3D&reserved=0> > > Tiree Tech Wave: http://tireetechwave.org/ > <https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftireetechwave.org%2F&data=01%7C01%7Cian.rowlands%40KCL.AC.UK%7C3f36eeccb94a41c47bc308d450118820%7C8370cf1416f34c16b83c724071654356%7C0&sdata=H8EJYIMLEfDfu1Vncer3wGorhOUTNQiWfefbcUEwKh4%3D&reserved=0> >