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Hear hear. I suspect this topic has run its course. I'm basing that on the feeling that we are in danger of seeing more heat than light in the posts, people have started unsubscribing, and people have started emailing me saying so. I don't want to break the list over this. Clearly there's disagreement as to whether or not this is an appropriate topic for the EBH list. I don't expect anyone to change their position. Nor do I expect to please all the people all the time. I've always felt that meta-discussion (i.e. discussion of what is and isn't appropriate for the list) is appropriate for the list, as long as it doesn't get out of hand. We've had similar discussions over the years, e.g. about whether it's OK to ask for evidence about a specific clinical question on the list and things like that. So, meta-discussions, as well as being respectful and polite, politeness, need to be constructive and brief so that they don't derail the main purpose of the list. We've heard from both sides of the debate, including people affected by the US travel ban, and from those who'd be affected by any boycott. Now that the topic has been raised, thrashed about a bit, and had Godwin's law invoked, perhaps it's time to move on to other things, unless there are new things to add. I'd like to propose that to the list in general. If you feel strongly for or against this suggestion, please email me at [log in to unmask] and I'll take it from there. cheers Douglas [log in to unmask] On 2/7/2017 2:05 PM, Fiona Morgan wrote: > Godwin's Law rules OK. > > It would be nice if we could all keep this polite regardless of where you stand on the question of boycotts. > > Thanks > > -----Original Message----- > From: Evidence based health (EBH) [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Shaneyfelt, Terry > Sent: 07 February 2017 13:56 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Boycott Conferences in the US > > So now we are likening the vetting of potential terrorists to Nazi Germany? Wow! > > Ignorance knows no boundaries. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Evidence based health (EBH) [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Gerd Antes > Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 2:12 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Boycott Conferences in the US > > With the terrible German history of the last centery as background I would like to strongly support Ami's points. > To seperate science and politics is not possible in general and particularly not in the context of evidence-based .... > A travel ban directly violates the production and exchange of global knowledge, and systematic lies and twisting facts damages fundamental rules of science. > > Difficult to see how addressing these issues on this list should be propaganda. Those who are excluded from meetings and conferences for religious reasons or country of origin certainly deserve our solidarity. > > Gerd > > > > On Mon, Feb 06, 2017 at 04:49:30PM +0000, Ami Banerjee wrote: >> I agree that this is difficult but I would like to offer an alternative >> viewpoint. >> Science depends on open non-discriminatory discourse. For scientific >> meetings to be valid they must be open in a non discriminatory way. I am >> not blaming conference organisers but current US border regulations as >> President Trump would have them, mean that many scientists would not be >> able to attend due to their country of birth or nationality ergo the >> congress is not open. >> I am a cardiologist and epidemiologist and last week's ban affected >> several of my colleagues in that short time. Therefore, I think it is >> simplistic to decide not to debate politics here. That promotes the idea >> of ivory tower academia that does not engage with society. As long as my >> colleagues can't attend, and the conferences are not open, I am not >> attending either. >> >> In my own country, the UK, this morning I attended a scientific panel in >> Parliament to debate the impact of Brexit on UK science.There are many >> scientific fora which are debating this point, and should be debating this >> point, in my opinion, because if we the science community do not, then >> other people will decide for us. >> Evidence-based healthcare has led the way in rooting out lies, >> "alternative facts" and "fake news" in healthcare, and in public debate >> for several decades. There have been many calls for "evidence-based >> policymaking" but the uptake of this paradigm has been disappointing in >> many respects, and it is particularly threatened in many countries right >> now, including the US and the UK. Therefore, I believe this listserver can >> be a home for respectful debate. >> Best wishes >> Ami >> On 6 February 2017 at 16:30, Glen Burgoyne <[1][log in to unmask]> >> wrote: >> >> I strongly agree. If we were to follow through with this policy we are >> just hurting our own. The sponsors of medical conferences in the USA 🇺🇸 >> have nothing to do with the current political events there. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> On Feb 6, 2017, at 8:24 AM, Alan Adelman >> <[2][log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> Agree with Terry Shaneyfelt >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> On Feb 6, 2017, at 10:14 AM, Shaneyfelt, Terry >> <[3][log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> This doesn’t have anything to do with evidence based healthcare. >> >> This listserv should not a medium for propagating political agendas. >> >> >> >> From: Evidence based health (EBH) >> [[4]mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Juan >> Gérvas >> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2017 4:46 AM >> To: [5][log in to unmask] >> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Boycott Conferences in the US >> >> >> >> Solidarity People Affected ‘Muslim Ban’: Call for an Academic >> Boycott of International Conferences held in the US. >> >> [6]https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeNN_2HHREt1h-dm_CgWpFHw8N >> DPGLCkOwB4lLRFtKFJqI25w/formResponse >> >> -un saludo juan gérvas @JuanGrvas >> >> -- >> >> Dr Amitava Banerjee >> Senior Clinical Lecturer in Clinical Data Science and Honorary Consultant >> Cardiologist >> >> Farr Institute of Health Informatics Research >> >> University College London >> >> E-mail: [7]ami[8][log in to unmask] >> >> [9][log in to unmask] >> Tel:02035495449 >> >> Website: [10]http://iris.ucl.ac.uk/iris/browse/profile?upi=ABANE83 >> Twitter:amibanerjee1 >> >> >> References >> >> Visible links >> 1. mailto:[log in to unmask] >> 2. mailto:[log in to unmask] >> 3. mailto:[log in to unmask] >> 4. mailto:[log in to unmask] >> 5. mailto:[log in to unmask] >> 6. https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeNN_2HHREt1h-dm_CgWpFHw8NDPGLCkOwB4lLRFtKFJqI25w/formResponse >> 7. https://mail.bham.ac.uk/owa/redir.aspx?C=vttMZLWdjUK-owgyxhsh2sPQIxmyxdEIIoW6pyyMCfpf9paPSel1CkyFCPv7jaXNa1U4_MfZrns.&URL=mailto%3aa.banerjee.1%40bham.ac.uk%3b >> 8. mailto:[log in to unmask] >> 9. https://mail.bham.ac.uk/owa/redir.aspx?C=vttMZLWdjUK-owgyxhsh2sPQIxmyxdEIIoW6pyyMCfpf9paPSel1CkyFCPv7jaXNa1U4_MfZrns.&URL=mailto%3aamibanerjee%40yahoo.com >> 10. http://iris.ucl.ac.uk/iris/browse/profile?upi=ABANE83 -- Douglas Badenoch Director, Minervation Ltd ------------------------- T: +44 131 441 4699 M: +44 781 742 3262 www.minervation.com @DBadenoch --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus