(90% - 100%) "should certainly be achievable for an individual component of assessment" - and therefore (hopefully) in a module
James
________________________________________
From: External examiners discussion forum [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Chris Phillips [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 21 December 2016 11:18
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Christmas Cracker
At Newcastle, in my Faculty (Science, Agriculture and Engineering), we have Marking Criteria (I'd be happy to share) which includes:
"Professional Standard (90% - 100%) It should be rare for a mark to be awarded within this range, but it should certainly be achievable for an individual component of assessment (e.g. a piece of coursework, or an examination question). It should be awarded for work demonstrating outstanding and comprehensive understanding, with critical analysis and evaluation. In an examination situation the student will have presented a complete answer in a fully cogent manner, with no substantive errors or omissions. In individual project work there will be material which may be publishable. "
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From: External examiners discussion forum <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of DEROUNIAN, James <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: 21 December 2016 10:24
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Christmas Cracker
I agree Helen viz. "There may not be many students who achieve over 85 or say - under 20, but those numbers are always retained within our formal system and our thinking alike."
The mark range is 0-100.....from dire, to spectacular.
James
________________________________________
From: External examiners discussion forum [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Helen List [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 21 December 2016 10:08
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Christmas Cracker
I am in agreement with Patrick here. It is outside the practice we undertake at our institution. There may not be many students who achieve over 85 or say - under 20, but those numbers are always retained within our formal system and our thinking alike.
Artists and Designers also have a particular capacity to exceed our expectations - which is a pleasure to encounter.
Regards
Helen
Dr Helen List
Senior Lecturer, Level 5 Tutor & Admissions Tutor
BA. Film & Media Studies, School of Art,
Faculty of Arts & Humanities
Manchester Metropolitan University
Chatham Building
Higher Ormond Street
Manchester M15 6BR
+44(0)161 247 1935
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Please email me on [log in to unmask]<https://outlook.mmu.ac.uk/owa/redir.aspx?C=185cfe5854b7479a9939ebeacf366f8f&URL=mailto%3ah.list%40mmu.ac.uk> if you would like to arrange a tutorial or contact me otherwise. I will get back to you without delay and we can identify the best possible time and location for your needs.
Office Hours: Tuesday 13.30 - 15.30 & Thursday 11.30 - 13.30.
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From: External examiners discussion forum <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Mccarthy, Patrick <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: 21 December 2016 09:50
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Christmas Cracker
Dear all,
I have been following this trail with interest, both as an External Examiner but also as a Head of Department, and I am astonished that this approach can be considered ‘legal’! If you aren’t telling the students that all grades are ‘capped’ at a maximum score of 80% you are surely deceiving them and that must breach Competitive Marketing Authority regulations! From a pedagogic stance surely you must be demotivating your stronger students when they can’t achieve higher grades? If you are marking against a clear set of Learning Outcomes and using a ‘positive marking’ criterion then it is totally feasible to give a mark of 100%. The work does not have to be ‘perfect’ to gain 100% just to have achieved all of the Learning Outcomes. I was once EE at a ‘good’ University where they actually had in their marking criterion for their highest band “Must be of publishable quality”!!!
Pat McCarthy
Pat McCarthy BA (Hons) PgCE MA FHEA
Head of the Department of Religion, Philosophy and Cultural Heritage
Principal Lecturer (Recruitment & Outreach)
Faculty of Arts
University of Wolverhampton
MX Building (Room 112b)
Camp Street
Wolverhampton
WV1 1AD
Tel: 01902 322863 (Office)
07973917127 (Mobile)
Email: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Co-Convenor Art and Politics Specialist Group – Political Studies Association.
“Conformity is an Obscenity against the Soul of Humanity” Anon.
From: External examiners discussion forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Clive Turner
Sent: 21 December 2016 09:38
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Christmas Cracker
Presumably if someone got 80 marks they would score 100%?
If not, the 'rule' is utterly indefensible ...
On 21 Dec 2016 9:30 a.m., "Peter Honeyman" <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Hi
With a student profile that may include returners, working professionals and others, it is entirely possible that in some elements of a module marks in the high 90s or even 100 could be achieved, especially at lower levels when there are clear grade descriptors – it seems wrong to me to actually disallow marks over 80. To my mind 100% should be theoretically (if rarely) achievable.
Pete
Peter Honeyman
Subject Network Leader: Creative and Cultural Industries
University of the Highlands and Islands
Office: 01738 877432
Mobile: 07515 896345
From: External examiners discussion forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of Marcus Wood
Sent: 21 December 2016 09:18
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Christmas Cracker
It’s also quite common to have external examiners talk about the need for markers to use the full range of marks, i.e. 0-100, since this rarely happens in practice.
The issue is the huge banding for a First-class mark from 70-100, where other bandings, e.g. 2.1, are only 10%. This is one of the reasons why people are increasingly tending to favour Grade Point Averages (GPAs) over percentage marks for modules. Still some way to go re moving to GPA as a sector.
Actually to specify, though, that a percentage mark over 80% cannot be awarded (which was the original query) has to be wrong, surely? It must be possible for a student to achieve a mark of 80+ even if it is very difficult. To this extent I disagree with Mark’s point below.
Dr Marcus Wood
Senior Registrar: Governance
Academic Quality Directorate
Buckinghamshire New University
High Wycombe Campus
Queen Alexandra Road
High Wycombe
Buckinghamshire HP11 2JZ
Telephone: 01494 605066
For all formal regulatory documents please go to http://bucks.ac.uk/about_us/how_we_are_structured/Governance/public_information/formal_documents/ and use the search field. For inquiries related to our External Examiner process please email [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> and a member of the team will get back to you.
From: External examiners discussion forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mark Taylor-Batty
Sent: 20 December 2016 14:31
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Christmas Cracker
Merry Christmas James
It’s quite common to have a top mark within a system that is based on 0-100, even if the full 100 range is not applied. One could argue over whether this means percentages are being applied or not (they are, but certain percentages are being disallowed; they are not but applying a scale from say 30 to 80). The important things are the grade qualifiers and the criteria to guide one within the grades. The number applied in a sense are arbitrary, but a system needs to have a coherent logic. 30 to 80 scales do have a logic, even as topped and tailed percentages.
On 20 Dec 2016, at 14:13, DEROUNIAN, James <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Christmas Cracker
[as seen on a card from a colleague, but worthy of a cracker joke = “What do you get if you cross a bell…..with a skunk?” Answer: ‘Jingle Smells’]
And a brain teaser:
A colleague recently announced that – although a module guide clearly states award of percentage marks for student assignments - they marked out of 80; that is 0-80 (top mark).
Why? How can this be justified? Isn’t it just plain wrong?
Happy Christmas ☺
James
James Derounian BSc (Hons) MPhil MRTPI FHEA FILCM
Principal Lecturer in Community Engagement and Local Governance,
Course Leader Applied Social Sciences,
National Teaching Fellow,
University of Gloucestershire,
Cheltenham
GL50 4AZ
Tel. 01242-714562
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Visiting Fellow Edge Hill University Institute for Public Policy and Professional Practice
Honorary Fellow Birmingham University (Third Sector Research Centre)
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