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I'm sorry, I didn't see the question at the time, but I don't think this link was posted: Schools, pupils and their characteristics: January 2016 https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/schools-pupils-and-their-characteri stics-january-2016 I think this is probably the dataset you refer to regarding children whose first language is not English, Robert? The Local Authority and Regional Tables file, Tables 9a, b, c, provide ethnicity data on children on school rolls; Tables 10a, b, c, provide the data on children on school rolls whose first language is not English (but do not specify what their first languages are). My understanding is that although the school census (from which this information comes) does not ask schools and LAs to report what children's first language actually is (just whether it is English), in most cases schools will record the actual language. And again in most cases (some caveats around academies and private schools) LAs will also therefore hold the actual language. They may also hold nationality data though I'm not sure how complete and accurate recording is. If you're working with a specific LA I would start by talking to the data team about what information they hold. Let me know off-list if I can be more helpful. I'm a children's data person though not primarily education data. Might also be worth talking to NHS data people. I note your point about GP registration data but where children are born here or adults or children are treated in NHS settings some data on language or nationality may be recorded. Georgia -----Original Message----- From: email list for Radical Statistics [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Moore, Robert Sent: 29 October 2016 12:12 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: minority populations Thanks for all the replies. I should perhaps have been more careful in framing the original question. A small local authority, not an area of postwar immigration, has had substantial inward migration since 2000, most of it from the eastern EU. The 2011 census gave some indication of the size of this population but we know there has been a substantial churning of the migrant population since then. The only 'hard' information we have for the area is the number of pupils in the local schools whose first language is not English. An old problem of course, national and regional data may be available from ONS and others but sub-regional and local data are very hard if not impossible to come by. I had a recollection (false, it now appears) that in the 1960s and 1970s attempts were made to calculate total population from school populations - a pretty desperate measure, with very wide margins of error, if it was adopted. But I wanted to find out how this was done. But apparently, it wasn't! Se we have small town - population 13,000 - with 'Polski Sklep' appearing on a number of shops on the main streets, a Krakow Off-licence and the catholic school bursting at the seams. But nobody actually knows the migrant population. GP registrations not very helpful because apparently there is a belief that 'General' Practitioners are a lower grade of doctor and so people go back to Poland or wherever for 'specialist' treatment. Some list members must have faced this one - is there a way into it? Now would not be a good time to go knocking on doors asking about nationality! Robert Professor Robert Moore School of Sociology and Social Policy Eleanor Rathbone Building The University of Liverpool L69 7ZA Telephone and fax: 44 (0) 1352 714456 ________________________________________ From: email list for Radical Statistics [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Macfarlane, Alison [[log in to unmask]] Sent: 29 October 2016 11:30 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: minority populations You could also look at the extensive range of data on migration published by ONS and the Home Office. Alison ________________________________ From: Paul Ashton <[log in to unmask]> Sent: 29 October 2016 09:19 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: minority populations Robert, If the previous responses have not resolved your query you could contact the Migration Observatory at the ESRC Centre on Migration, Policy and Society (COMPAS) at the University of Oxford and Carlos Vargas-Silva, the senior researcher there. See also their Briefing 'Migrants in the UK: An Overview' http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migrants-in-the -uk-an-overview/ [http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/adaptive/2016/0 4/iStock_000004440280_Large-1.jpg]<http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/ resources/briefings/migrants-in-the-uk-an-overview/> Migrants in the UK: An Overview - Migration Observatory<http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/mig rants-in-the-uk-an-overview/> www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk This briefing provides an overview of the number, population share, geographic distribution and citizenship of migrants in the UK. which gives figures for regions but not LAs, though I believe they do have LA figures too. Paul Ashton On 28/10/2016 11:57, Moore, Robert wrote: > I half-remember from many years ago (pre-1991?) that some local authorities tried to make estimates of their immigrant populations from data on the composition of school rolls. I can’t imagine this producing very good figures, but perhaps marginally better than nothing at all. Is my memory correct and, if it is, does anyone know the method used? > > Robert > > > Professor Robert Moore > School of Sociology and Social Policy > Eleanor Rathbone Building > The University of Liverpool > L69 7ZA > > Telephone and fax: 44 (0) 1352 714456 > > ****************************************************** > Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your > message will go only to the sender of this message. > If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's > 'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically > to [log in to unmask] > Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the sender and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held by subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and past issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site www.radstats.org.uk<http://www.radstats.org.uk>. > ******************************************************* ****************************************************** Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your message will go only to the sender of this message. If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's 'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically to [log in to unmask] Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the sender and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held by subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and past issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site www.radstats.org.uk<http://www.radstats.org.uk>. ******************************************************* ****************************************************** Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your message will go only to the sender of this message. If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's 'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically to [log in to unmask] Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the sender and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held by subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and past issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site www.radstats.org.uk. ******************************************************* ****************************************************** Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your message will go only to the sender of this message. If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's 'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically to [log in to unmask] Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the sender and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held by subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and past issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site www.radstats.org.uk. ******************************************************* ****************************************************** Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your message will go only to the sender of this message. If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's 'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically to [log in to unmask] Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the sender and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held by subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and past issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site www.radstats.org.uk. *******************************************************