Dear all

I would prefer to see exclusions from a list like this to be based on more specific grounds than an extremely vague Unbegriff such as 'hate speech'. The problem is not that the person in question 'hates' this or that country, not even that this hatred is put into printed words. Nor is there a clear case that his comment is antisemitic (for which 'hate speech' is probably here a umbrella term stand-in): those of us who study these things seriously know how difficult it is to make a watertight case for saying that this or that sentence in, for example, a certain novel by Freytag 'is' antisemitic. It takes a thorough analysis of this individual's overall output on some 500 pages (for this case, Achinger 2007 demonstrates how it's done) in order to establish the claim that a particular statement is in fact antisemitic: the judgement that 'this is antisemitic' requires interpretation and reconstruction of meaning. Noone would bother to undertake such a process of interpretation in the case of a individual of (I assume and hope) no public relevance whatsoever. Therefore the accusation should have been Verharmlosung of National Socialism, not generic 'hate speech' (and certainly not the crime of broadcasting political opinions - this is done routinely on this list, and it is all the better for it). His crime is very clear and easily stated: calling Israel or the USA 'Nazi', verharmlost National Socialism (sorry I am still not sure what would be the best English word for that - 'playing down' is in itself a Verharmlosung of Verharmlosung). This may well be driven by some kind of antisemitic sentiment, but this is for him to ponder about, or to be analysed by someone who knows more about him. Not our problem. We should bypass this and simply state the accusation is Verharmlosung.

Sorry for the repetition... Marcel Stoetzler



From: JISCmail German Studies List <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of DAVIES Peter <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: 17 October 2016 15:51
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: German-Studies list: guidelines
 
Dear all

I also hope that we would remove anyone abusing the list for hate speech of any kind immediately and without question.

Thanks
Peter


On 17 Oct 2016, at 15:44, Niven, William <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Dear Sarah,
 
Thanks for that; then I think the decision was the right one.
 
Best wishes
 
Bill
From: Sarah Colvin [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
Sent: 17 October 2016 15:42
To: Niven, William <[log in to unmask]>; [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: German-Studies list: guidelines
 
Dear Bill and all,
 
It had already been indicated to him that the mailing list is not the place to air political views (by Duncan, some months ago).
 
I suggest that we respect the duties and work of the owners of the list, and their decision on this occasion.
 
Best wishes,
 
Sarah
 
 
From: JISCmail German Studies List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Niven, William
Sent: 17 October 2016 15:36
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: German-Studies list: guidelines
 
Dear All,
 
While I was one of those who found Jefferson’s comments shocking, I feel uncomfortable about his removal from the list. I think it would have been better to have indicated to him that this mailing list is not the right place for him to air political views, and that if he does so again, then that would be grounds for removal.
 
Bill
 
 
 
From: JISCmail German Studies List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Francesca Goll
Sent: 17 October 2016 15:10
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: German-Studies list: guidelines
 
Dear All,
 
while I agree that this constant spamming of one's inbox through unrelated e-mails is very annoying and to be stopped (I am aware of the irony of myself spamming other people's inbox!),
removing someone on the grounds of their views does not cement a "free and democratic discussion forum" at all. 
It is a form of censorship that I do not agree with in the least. 
 
 
Best,
 
Francesca
 
 
Il giorno 17/ott/2016, alle ore 16:05, "Dr. Deborah Vietor-Englaender" <[log in to unmask]> ha scritto:

 

Thank you very much Anna and Duncan
 
Dr. Deborah Vietor-Englaender
[log in to unmask]
www.vietor-englaender.co.uk

 

From: JISCmail German Studies List <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Anna Saunders <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: 17 October 2016 13:58
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: German-Studies list: guidelines
 
Dear List Members,
 
Following on from the discussion on the list today, could we please set out a couple of guidelines for the list:
 
First, hate speech will entail removal from the list (and has resulted in Jefferson's removal). As Peter Davies has already pointed out in his helpful e-mail, the list functions on the basis of trust within the German-Studies community, and we therefore ask that all members abide by reasonable community standards.
 
Second, could we all please ensure that e-mails to the list pertain to teaching, research or other issues pertinent to professional matters around German and European Studies. While we all wish to enjoy a free and democratic discussion forum, which an unmoderated list enables, we doubtless all suffer from the eternal problem of ever-expanding inboxes.
 
With best wishes,
Anna Saunders and Duncan Large
 
Joint list owners
 
 
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