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Thanks for reminding me, dave. I think I did a mindskip here, since I drop Hulme into the Pound Circle rather than the Graves Circle. Also because (related) his Five Poems were written before the War. Mind you, all of H. H. Monro's writing was pre-war too, possibly because was easier to write poems in the trenches than it was to write extended prose. Or should that be extended texts? Anathemata came out even later than Goodbye To all That. Robin > On 10 September 2016 at 12:09 David Bircumshaw > <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > T.E.Hulme initially enlisted as a 'common soldier' but changed his mind as > he thought the incompetence of the officers was a greater threat to his life > than the Germans. > > On 10 September 2016 at 12:05, Robin Hamilton > <[log in to unmask] mailto:[log in to unmask] > > wrote: > > > > > > dave wrote: "Jones was from not too far up the social ladder than > > the Pitmen, and certainly not officer class. " > > > > It always interested me how the Officers / Other Ranks division > > between poets involved in the Great Patriotic War cut across class > > distinctions. Graves and Sassoon were officer class, but Saki (K, he wrote > > prose), Edward Thomas, David Jones and Isaac Rosenberg were all > > run-of-the-mill squaddies. > > > > Robin > > > > > > > On 10 September 2016 at 11:38 David Bircumshaw > > > > > <[log in to unmask] > > > > > mailto:[log in to unmask] > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Robert > > > > > > I'm not sure what you mean in respect of Stephen Duck. He > > > became a contender for the Laureate, a (not unmocked) friend of Swift and > > > Pope, and a beneficed clergyman. As a writer he exchanged his muse from > > > the hard labour of the harvest to the praise of Queen Caroline. And he > > > died somewhere inside. Although it does seem that his aim in his early > > > writings was to find patronage and escape the fields. > > > The narrative of the Pitmen Painters is somewhat different. > > > I'd like to know more about their meetings with David Jones, who was in a > > > patron's place somewhere near Ashington if I remember (I not looking in my > > > books on the PPs or SD as I write) It interests me because Jones was from > > > not too far up the social ladder than the Pitmen, and certainly not > > > officer class. But there seems to have some distance on his part. > > > > > > On 10 September 2016 at 10:38, Tim Allen > > > <[log in to unmask] > > > mailto:[log in to unmask] > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Yes you're right Robert, with > > > > > > > those examples anyway. And it's made me consider > > > > > > > the fact that it wasn't writing poems that took me > > > > > > > into the middle class (even if a nominal one) but > > > > > > > becoming a teacher. I haven't really thought of it > > > > > > > this way before. But then I still would not call > > > > > > > myself a working class poet in any way even though > > > > > > > I certainly would not write what I do if I had not > > > > > > > had that background. > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > Tim > > > > > > > > On 9 Sep 2016, at 20:46, Hampson, R wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But does the ‘Thresher > > > > > > > > > Poet’ cease to be a ‘Thresher Poet’? isn’t > > > > > > > > > the point that he remains a member if the > > > > > > > > > agricultural labouring class. I am > > > > > > > > > thinking also about the ‘Pitman painters’. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert (belatedly) > > > > > > > > > > From: British & Irish poets > > > > > [mailto:[log in to unmask] > > > > > mailto:[log in to unmask] ] On Behalf Of David > > > > > Bircumshaw > > > > > Sent: 09 September 2016 10:17 > > > > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > > > mailto:[log in to unmask] > > > > > Subject: Re: Poets & class > > > > > > > > > > Class is what you are in the world but class > > > > > markers like accent or etiquette or background are what you were. You > > > > > can certainly be from a lower class background yet transform into a > > > > > middle class poet, plenty have done so in Britain. As far back as the > > > > > eighteenth century the 'Thresher Poet' Stephen Duck came from the > > > > > agricultural labouring class to become a favourite of Queen Caroline. > > > > > The networks that maintain poets are overwhelmingly middle-class, > > > > > that's not an accusation it's a statement of fact. To claim otherwise > > > > > is nonsensical. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > David Joseph Bircumshaw > > > > > > The Animal Subsides > > > http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html > > > http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html > > > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw > > > http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw > > > Tumblr: http://zantikus.tumblr.com/ > > > twitter: http://twitter.com/bucketshave > > > blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com/ > > > http://groggydays.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > David Joseph Bircumshaw > > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw > Tumblr: http://zantikus.tumblr.com/ > twitter: http://twitter.com/bucketshave > blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com/ >