Colleagues,

You may wish to look at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/higher-apprenticeships-guide-for-employers
which states:

"Higher apprenticeships offer a work-based learning programme and lead to a nationally recognised qualification at one of the following:

• a level 4 and 5 - equivalent to a higher education certificate, higher education diploma or a foundation degree
• a level 6 - equivalent to a bachelor degree"

So in my estimation would be of limited interest to academics, or for a PGCert equivalent.

Best wishes,
Ian
______________
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University of Southampton

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On 15 Jun 2016, at 09:09, Van der Velden, Gwen <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:

Thank you, Hugh.
Now it may well be that it is because I am reading this on a small mobile whilst queueing up for a flight but I don't think that document resolves the issue of whether people who already have a pg degree can be enrolled onto an apprenticeship at pg level.
Did I just miss the relevant section?

Best from Birmingham airport.
Gwen

Sent by mobile device.

On 15 Jun 2016, at 08:53, Hugh Mannerings <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:

This might provide you with the clarity that you’re looking forhttps://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/513573/The_Complete_Guide_to___Which_Uni.pdf

Hugh Mannerings
Academic Lead – Retention & Attainment
‘Transforming Teaching. Inspiring Learning’



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From: Online forum for SEDA, the Staff & Educational Development Association [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Van der Velden, Gwen
Sent: 14 June 2016 22:11
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Apprenticeships

Well, that's a BPP link, ie. this could well be institutionally specific. I've just tried to find it ongov.uk<http://gov.uk/> but wasn't successful....

It does ring a bell in my mind too though, but let's be sure?

And best wishes for a speedy recovery, Dilly. You're clearly bored with it already!

Best wishes, Gwen van der Velden
________________________________
From: Online forum for SEDA, the Staff & Educational Development Association <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Haig, Lesley 2 <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 9:32:37 PM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Apprenticeships

That’s quite right Dilly.

Those are the criteria as I understand them.

All the best,
Lesley

Professor Lesley Haig
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Allied Health Sciences / School of Health and Social Care
London South Bank University
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From: Online forum for SEDA, the Staff & Educational Development Association [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Fung, Dilly
Sent: 14 June 2016 19:49
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Apprenticeships

I've found this on eligibility:


'You can still apply to start an apprenticeship even if you already have a job. Basically, you'll need to:

•         Be working 30+ hours in a role relevant to the apprenticeships you're applying for.
•         Have a full time permanent contract, and have been a UK/EU/EAA resident for 3 or more years.
•         Not have a degree or qualification at the same level as the apprenticeships you're applying for.'
That presumably means if you already have a Masters degree/PhD there's no funding for a PGCert or similar? That would rule out virtually all academics...?

Perhaps I've got the wrong end of the stick - would be happy to be enlightened...

All the best
Dilly


Prof Dilly Fung
Professor of Higher Education Development
Academic Director, UCL CALT
University College London
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@DevonDilly

On 14 Jun 2016, at 19:36, Susan Moron-Garcia <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Although one might argue teaching is a craft skill Paul!? But of course realise that doesn't capture what we are trying to do through our programmes and development activities.
Not sure Dilly, but good question to think about.

We too are being instructed to think about our teaching programmes as possible apprenticeships, I too have raised issues re appropriateness and resource (time, workload). Currently seem to be concentrating on professions, but teacher ed already have standards.
Sue

Sent from my iPad

On 14 Jun 2016, at 19:26, Fung, Dilly <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Are people who already hold postgraduate qualifications actually eligible for these higher apprenticeships??

Dilly
Prof Dilly Fung
Professor of Higher Education Development
Academic Director, UCL CALT
University College London
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
@DevonDilly

On 14 Jun 2016, at 19:22, Van der Velden, Gwen <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
As said by colleagues, it’s not an attractive term in academia, but there is an obvious interest in gaining the apprenticeship levy back. Does the term ‘apprenticeship’ have to be used when such a thing would be implemented in an institution?

I am aware that there are professions whereby there is substantial practice led teaching, and practitioners are interested in undertaking HE teaching development (architecture, medicine, dentistry, design) but I have no idea how that would work out in terms of time commitment etc. Maybe this is what is meant with the ‘Academic Professional’ terminology that gets used. To be fair, I expect that’s just a bit of bidding language and we possibly shouldn’t read to much into it.

I think the HEA is leading on the proposal. Maybe we should ask for clarification there?

Incidentally, I have previously heard reference to PhD students as academic apprentices. It’s been a while though!

Another interesting development to watch…

Professor Gwen van der Velden

Academic Director of the Warwick International Higher Education Academy (WIHEA)
Senate House room 1.11
University of Warwick

Tel. +44 2476 5 23050
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From: Online forum for SEDA, the Staff & Educational Development Association [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Blackmore, Paul
Sent: 14 June 2016 13:54
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Apprenticeships


No references spring to mind, but wasn't it traditionally the case that one would be apprenticed to a trade rather than a profession? It's an ideologically charged and often unhelpful distinction of course, but one I'd tend to keep away from when trying to make something attractive.

Best wishes

Paul



Paul Blackmore PhD NTF FRSA
Professor of Higher Education
International Centre for University Policy Research
Policy Institute at King's
King's College London
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Tel: 020 7848 1958

Recently published:
Blackmore, P. (2016) Prestige in academic life: Excellence and exclusion, Abingdon: Routledge.
 https://www.routledge.com/products/9781138884946

Blackmore, P. (2016) The role of prestige in UK universities: Vice-chancellors' perspectives. London: Leadership Foundation for Higher Education. http://www.lfhe.ac.uk/en/research-resources/publications/index.cfm/S4-04



HE Green Paper: reforms will benefit the established elite,Times Higher Education blog December 17th 2015.https://www.timeshighereducation.com/blog/he-green-paper-reforms-will-benefit-established-elite

Universities vie for the metric that cannot be measured - prestige, Guardian, 29th March 2016
http://www.theguardian.com/higher-education-network/2016/mar/29/universities-vie-for-the-metric-that-cannot-be-measured-prestige

Universities face a choice between prestige and efficiency, Times Higher Education blog, 5th April, 2016 https://www.timeshighereducation.com/blog/universities-face-choice-between-prestige-and-efficiency

________________________________
From: Online forum for SEDA, the Staff & Educational Development Association <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of George Roberts <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Sent: 14 June 2016 12:12:32
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Apprenticeships

What are the views on this list of regarding new lecturers as apprentices? In the context of the discussion about the apprenticeship levy.
Are their any key thought pieces you are aware of?
We are working on it.
Thank you
George
Dr George Roberts
Principal Lecturer, Educational Development
Oxford Centre for Staff and Learning Development
Oxford Brookes University
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+44 7711 698465
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