Hi Sean and thanks for responding. - With regard to the political I was referring to some of the avant-gardes of the past whose participants really did seem to be concerned with the political in the sense of expanding and enriching consciousness and experience on the one hand while fighting for social equality and emancipation on the other, things which were ideally not a contradiction even when in practice problems arose. Of course a minority of them were opportunists and users, isn't it always the case. The story of how avant art got to be so cosy with late capitalism is a well worn one but it still doesn't seem to stop the bollocks which many of the artists spout.
  
On 19 Apr 2016, at 14:20, Sean Carey wrote:

Stem the tide or ride it


-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Carey <[log in to unmask]>
To: 0000002899e7d020-dmarc-request <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tue, Apr 19, 2016 01:44 PM
Subject: Re: names


I fully understand your flustrations at no response Tim and have observed the recent debates with interest. Labels in any artistic context often are meaningless as indeed are groupings. A key point I have learned far too late in life is the career aspect of writing seen in a clear light by David B. The very same label tag is there also in politics which in its own way has many ''Iffy'' aspects to it. I won't dwell on politics but for many it is a career not a vocational call to action. My own reading now is across the thin veils often quoted as the platform poets claim to write from in their credos. Most I now take with a grain of salt as careerist options rooted in economics. In saying that of course I am aware it will be seen as purist Marxist lingo more suited to the 1930's than 2016. But the myth of ''no money in poetry but only in mainsteam poetry'' does not hold water. Many on this list are doing quite well usually via academic or creative writing jobs or working in the prison system e.g. Others have come from old money families but work in the literary field as a career choice. No doubt there are poor poets but I have not met very many in my literary time. If we accept literary activity as an actual career then we can all feel less divided on various issues. This means it is A JOB one works in to earn money rather than a fudged artistic claim of being above commerce. Not a total answer but a mere move towards clarity Tim. Cheers Sean Stem the tide or ride it