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Continue, To me an important feature of design is its self-referentiality, I.e., the expectations of the designer needs to be part of any design. These expectations are not predictive but need to be compelling stakeholders into actions to make a design reality. These need to be compelling not abstracti, not linear as in predictive theories but self-reflexive or circular, including believers in what a design may be. Klaus Sorry of the interruption. I am on a shaky train home. Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 21, 2016, at 6:29 AM, Eduardo corte-real <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Dear Friends, > Our posts have been skipping the most important fact that relates color and design. The fact is that we have been producing (since the beginning of history, at least,) tons of o liquid objects that we use to color other objects. The importance of color might be How do we perceive colors , or how things are colorful, but really intriguing is why did we decided, as a species, to develop paint… A non object that changes only ONE atribute of form: its color. > I think that this process of covering objects with a non object, a presumed layer of pure change done in the surface, but able to contaminate the whole nature of an object, was and still is a process of grouping stuff into categories that may overlap functional categories. Example: All red things incude: Benfica, Robert Indiana Love Sculptures, Ferraris, Coca Cola, Santa Claus. This objects are not by nature red but they were painted as red.when we are proposing something "to be in the world” that did not existed until then ( a real design situation). > Best, > Eduardo > >> No dia 21/02/2016, às 08:41, Terence Love <[log in to unmask]> escreveu: >> >> Dear Klaus, >> >> Thank you for your message. I appreciate you taking the trouble to comment. >> >> I understand your position and agree on the way culture and learning shape >> the way our bodies shape what and how we self-reflectively perceive things >> like colours. >> >> As I see it, there is no obvious reason why predicting the outcomes of >> innovative designs using new forms of design theories/models will >> necessarily reinforce the existing, unless on makes the models so >> restrictive. >> >> I suggest that in fact such predictive design theories/models are more >> likely to identify innovative possibilities that we cannot because of the >> limitations of our innovative thinking that in us humans naturally tends to >> be fixated and conservative. >> >> I agree with you about Google. >> >> By the way, it would be more accurate for yourself and David to suggest my >> perspective is post-positivist/ post-empiricist (Popper, Giddens) rather >> than positivist, with a perspective on emotion/intuition shaped by Damasio, >> Darwin, Bastick and others, a view of mind and self-perception as a >> secondary illusory construct of human animal behaviour. >> >> In contrast, Ken's position is positivist, as seen by his view on evidence. >> >> Oh, and it's not true that ' for a theory to be predictable requires the >> pattern that the theory aims to describe to continues as observed in the >> past.' At very least the introduction of a design will result in change and >> predicting the consequences of that change is the central challenge such >> design theory must address. A key decision will of course be the level of >> abstraction at which it is addressed. >> >> Best wishes, >> Terence >> >> --- >> Dr Terence Love >> PhD(UWA), BA(Hons) Engin. PGCEd, FDRS, PMACM, MISI >> Love Services Pty Ltd >> PO Box 226, Quinns Rocks >> Western Australia 6030 >> Tel: +61 (0)4 3497 5848 >> [log in to unmask] >> www.loveservices.com.au >> -- >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [log in to unmask] >> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Klaus Krippendorff >> Sent: Sunday, 21 February 2016 3:01 PM >> To: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related >> research in Design <[log in to unmask]> >> Subject: Re: Assume fixed number of colours in design? >> >> Terry >> I wanted to say something on color perception. I was taught by former >> Bauhaus teachers but became exposed to experiments in social perception >> which taught me the tremendous cultural differences in perception, including >> of colors. I worked for a year in an institute for visual perception and >> presented my views in writing, but recently discovered evidence that color >> perception certainly is triggered by physical stimuli but the do not explain >> our culturally coherent sense of colors. >> >> However, now that you clarified your aim of developing a predictive design >> theory I need to respond differently. >> >> First I side with Davis sless who suggested that your aim is thoroughly (not >> his word) positivist >> >> Second, for a theory to be predictable requires the pattern that the theory >> aims to describe to continues as observed in the past. To me design is by >> definition innovative, ideally transformative (ranging from changing >> everyday practices to transforming social structures). A design theory that >> predicts the consequences of a design contradicts (my conception of) the >> mission of design to introduce unexpected changes in the world. Such a >> predictive theory can only encourage strengthening what is already know, not >> to change it. >> >> Third, I am of course cognizant if the need for designers to justify their >> design to clients, all kinds of stakeholders, including users and advocates >> for the environment. I my opinion, a predictive theory would not be >> convincing. What could inspire the stakeholders of a design to become >> enrolled In a project of realizing it are plausible arguments. In the >> semantic turn I have explored several rhetorical strategies They include >> experiments on sub-populations as well as self-fulfilling prophesies. >> >> Science fiction, futuristic novels, as well as ethnographic accounts of how >> people are struggling in life may well inspire designers. But Google >> searches provide mostly data of what their authors want you to know exists. >> They rarely predict the innovations introduced that designers introduce. >> >> Klaus >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Feb 21, 2016, at 12:25 AM, Terence Love <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Don and all, >>> >>> For design research, one of the biggest and most important challenges, is >> developing a body of theory for predicting the outcomes in the world of the >> effects of individual designs. >>> >>> It's in this context I raised a relatively abstract meta-analytical >> question about design theory making, relating to decisions about the >> character of variety in how we represent factors that are elements of >> design theories. This is an issue important to both predictive design >> theories themselves and the representation of concpets and factors that we >> use as professional designers >>> >>> There are advantages and disadvantages of 'fixed and known' variety >> versus 'infinite variety in representing the factors used in creating >> predictive theory about the consequences of designs in the world. I've >> copied the original post below. >>> >>> I used colour as an example of such a factor. First, because it is well >> understood phenomenon on this list (or so I thought), and hence wouldn't >> need to be explained. Second, colour is clearly a phenomenon that, like any >> phenomenon, we can represent as an approximation via either a continuous >> function or discrete stepped function. Also, I thought that double aspect of >> the representation of colour wouldn't need to be explained as we clearly use >> both in design. >>> >>> None of the above, I suggest, is contentious. It is taken for granted and >> straightforward in much of the discourse. >>> >>> The real challenge is to look at possible approaches to creating design >> theories that predict design outcomes as the consequences of design in the >> world. >>> >>> These kinds of design theories are difficult predictive models. The most >> immediate ambition is to make useful projections into the future of the >> consequences of individual designs. It is not expected that these theories >> will provide definitive predictions, rather that they will be usefully >> correct, at a level sufficient to aid with design decision making. Some >> simplified predictive design theory models are already possible and in use, >> for example in the realm of environmental and life cycle costs. >>> >>> It requires new sorts of design theories, however, to extend the ability >> to predict the consequences of individual designs more fully into other >> realms such as social analysis, lifestyle change, future innovation, >> politics, planning, economics, security and geopolitics. >>> >>> The variety characteristics of factors used in constructing and describing >> designs is obviously a key issue (e.g. in the manner Purma described about >> colour). >>> >>> We have a choice to include any design-related factor in predictive >>> design theories via either continuous or discrete representations or >>> some combination. In the case of colour we have a choice of either >>> >>> In the post, I asked for comments about which people felt was going to >> work better in the development of new predictive design theories that >> identified the consequences of designs. >>> >>> If we choose to represent design factors and their variety as continuous >> functions, then the predictive structures embodied in design theories will >> need to accommodate this. It drives representation of the design theories >> into, for example, the realms of non-linear n-order calculus, which on one >> hand offers potential benefits in identifying optimal positions in >> m-dimensional design space. On the other hand it presents significant >> challenges to solve the functions in creating such theories in which n and m >> are large. >>> >>> In contrast, if we choose to represent design factors and their variety as >> discrete functions (identified via just noticeable difference or the >> several other measures of limits of discrimination (which as far as I can >> see combine vectorially)), then the predictive structures embodied in the >> design theories can be chosen to accommodate this in a different manner to >> addressing continuous functions. Rather differently to the above, it enables >> the structure of design theories to move, for example, into vector space >> with predictive projection based on matrix-based analyses, and time >> projections based on finite difference or time step methods. The predictive >> processing is easier to compute, but identifying optimal directions and >> points in the design space is less easy. The challenges are in creating such >> predictive design theories in which n and m are large are less. >>> >>> I'm aware many will regard these as relatively new areas of design >> research. In fact, they originated in the earlier parts of the last century >> and were the foundational issues on which design research was developed. >> They can be seen as the central concerns of Rittel, Zwicky, Jones, >> Bertalanffy, systems research, behavioural science, operational research >> and many others. I would tentatively suggest that the underlying aim of most >> research in areas such as the perception of colour is to contribute to this >> larger and as yet not well addressed aim of developing theory to be better >> able to predict the outcomes of designs in the world. >>> >>> Again, I hope that clarifies my original post... but I'm aware people >> might be much more interested in colour theory! >>> >>> Warm regards, >>> Terry >>> >>> --- >>> Dr Terence Love >>> PhD(UWA), BA(Hons) Engin. PGCEd, FDRS, PMACM, MISI Love Services Pty >>> Ltd PO Box 226, Quinns Rocks Western Australia 6030 >>> Tel: +61 (0)4 3497 5848 >>> [log in to unmask] >>> www.loveservices.com.au >>> -- >>> >>> Original post >>> >>> 'Is it better to assume as an axiom in making design theory that colour >> always comprises a set of fixed colours rather than assuming colour as >> being a continuous spectrum? There seem to be strong reasons in theory and >> practice to make this assumption, and that it is possible calculate exactly >> how big the set is (i.e exactly how many different colours) for each design >> scenario. The advantage in design theory and research is between fixed and >> known variety and 'infinite' variety. >>> >>> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >>> PhD-Design mailing list <[log in to unmask]> Discussion of PhD >>> studies and related research in Design Subscribe or Unsubscribe at >>> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/phd-design >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >> PhD-Design mailing list <[log in to unmask]> Discussion of PhD >> studies and related research in Design Subscribe or Unsubscribe at >> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/phd-design >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >> PhD-Design mailing list <[log in to unmask]> >> Discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design >> Subscribe or Unsubscribe at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/phd-design >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > PhD-Design mailing list <[log in to unmask]> > Discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design > Subscribe or Unsubscribe at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/phd-design > ----------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------- PhD-Design mailing list <[log in to unmask]> Discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design Subscribe or Unsubscribe at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/phd-design -----------------------------------------------------------------