Will we call it singh gate?
Welcome trust has supported a number of projects I have been involved with. We are lucky to have that institution here in uk.
It's also super hard to get a grant from them. Don't know what the pass rate is but expect it to be in low % for public facing projects

Cheers
Brian

P's this email list is sooo usefull and interesting.

On 17 Oct 2015 19:50, "Ruth McAvinia" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Seems to me this is part of a growing trend where STEM into STEAM is only for people who were in STEM in the first place. They get to define the "A" in STEAM and decide what's useful, ignoring thousands of years of human activity. Outreach is not supposed to be filling a gap in teaching - and I use filling a gap consciously with its deficit model overtones. Outreach is supposed to be about meeting people on common ground or on different ground. If Simon Singh dislikes certain project he is welcome to, but he might also pay due attention to the system of interpreting and understanding art that humans have been working on since we started being, and not assume that art that means nothing to him is universally meaningless. 

Like others, I'd be interested in seeing the full context of this. 

Thanks!

Ruth

On 17 DFómh 2015, at 19:22, Brian Degger <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

anyone have the actual transcript of Singh. 

I think there is something to be debated here...and its not about science outreach.

Yes they can be seen as that, but actually they are artworks with scientific and storytelling themes. 

We are talking piddling amounts of money. And all of it isnt even taxpayers money. 

None, nada!

Where does the money come from?

Welcome trust, whose sole aim is to popularise science and promote scientific research, 

Lottery Fund....yes they are taxpayers, but noone forces someone to bet on winning the lottery.

I think the saying is that most of what was reported is pure red herring.

1) The scientific outreach is not actually scientific outreach 

2) the money isnt the taxpayers, it is targeted spending  

In the case of Tooth Palaces, I have seen the work, heard the artist and collaborators talk and as far as i can see... its not just a simple work.

Cmon... would £30000 even pay for 1 post doc? The salary I mean, not the bench fees, What size public audience does the average post-doc have?

Her family? I would argue the average postdoc maybe talks to only a few non-specialists.

Where to Now?

Lets get Singh in the room with these scientists and artists and have a proper conversation and debate. I like most of what he says... but as a friend just said on fb....what he is saying now is inflammatory enough to make me want to believe in Homeopathy.

As we say in Australia...

He seems to be "barking up the wrong tree" 

Anyone who want to facilitate a conversation between him and the artists has just to contact me. 

Caveat....I do know the tooth palace artist. I dont know Simon.

So as I am a bit biased....it would be good to get a moderator.

This particular event sets back the whole art and science thing, if brave multi and transdiciplinary works are seen as a waste of time and money.

Why is it important? 

Because.... Art and Science!

 

 

On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 12:00 PM, Michael Kenward <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

What got me, among other things, was the suggestion in one comment that Singh should be “applying his intellect and effort into getting more money for STEM across the board”.

 

Classic diversionary tactic. Don't deal with the issue, go off on a tangent.

 

My response is that such a call to arms would be great were we not living under a government that sees the cost of everything and the value of nothing. The idea that it will put more money into PEST work is wishful thinking.

 

So you have to think how best to spend the money you have got.

 

In any case, even if there were more money, it would still be a good idea to consider where you want to put it:  £30,000 ballet or £3000 school work.

 

Does it come down to evaluation after the activity? At its simplest £/”victim reached”.

 

MK

 

 

 

 

From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Francis Sedgemore
Sent: 17 October 2015 09:20
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Simon Singh criticises wasteful spending in science outreach | Times Higher Education

 

It is a useful exercise from Singh, and one guaranteed to rankle. 

 

The problem is that the specific targets of sharp criticism will be questioned, in some cases rightly so, and the ensuing argument can so easily detract from the core issue under discussion. Also, at the same time as criticising wasteful spending, one should look at the metrics used to evaluate the effectiveness of outreach projects. Such critical scrutiny of grant-funded projects in science communication is essential, and the underlying methodology must be robust. There is always room for improvement. 

 

If one can demonstrate that some expensive science outreach projects are naff, such efforts will (hopefully) no longer be funded. This approach works reasonably well with research funding.

 

Francis

-- 

Dr Francis Sedgemore

journalist, writer and recovering physicist

telephone: +44 7840 191336

website: sedgemore.com

twitter: @hesgen

 

On 16 Oct 15, at 22:16, Michael Kenward <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

 

“The best forms of public engagement tend to be ‘dirt cheap’ and profitable, says author”

 

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/simon-singh-criticises-wasteful-spending-in-science-outreach?utm_campaign=137702_SPIN_1215&utm_medium=email&utm_source=dotmailer&dm_i=2PXJ,2Y92,MK23B,8LLN,1

 

or

 

http://tinyurl.com/q6vedrk

 

Discuss.

 

MK

 

**********************************************************************

Commands - send an email (any subject) to [log in to unmask] with one of the following messages (ignoring text in brackets)

• set psci-com nomail (to stop receiving messages while on holiday) • set psci-com mail (to resume getting messages) • signoff psci-com (to leave the list) • Subscribe here https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=psci-com

Contact list owner at [log in to unmask] Small print and JISCMail acceptable use policy https://sites.google.com/site/pscicomjiscmail/the-small-print

**********************************************************************

**********************************************************************

Commands - send an email (any subject) to [log in to unmask] with one of the following messages (ignoring text in brackets)

• set psci-com nomail (to stop receiving messages while on holiday) • set psci-com mail (to resume getting messages) • signoff psci-com (to leave the list) • Subscribe here https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=psci-com

Contact list owner at [log in to unmask] Small print and JISCMail acceptable use policy https://sites.google.com/site/pscicomjiscmail/the-small-print

**********************************************************************

--

----------------------------------------
Brian Degger

twitter: @drbrian

http://makerspace.org.uk

http://transitlab.org

----------------------------------------

**********************************************************************

Commands - send an email (any subject) to [log in to unmask] with one of the following messages (ignoring text in brackets)

• set psci-com nomail (to stop receiving messages while on holiday) • set psci-com mail (to resume getting messages) • signoff psci-com (to leave the list) • Subscribe here https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=psci-com

Contact list owner at [log in to unmask] Small print and JISCMail acceptable use policy https://sites.google.com/site/pscicomjiscmail/the-small-print

**********************************************************************

**********************************************************************

Commands - send an email (any subject) to [log in to unmask] with one of the following messages (ignoring text in brackets)

• set psci-com nomail (to stop receiving messages while on holiday) • set psci-com mail (to resume getting messages) • signoff psci-com (to leave the list) • Subscribe here https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=psci-com

Contact list owner at [log in to unmask] Small print and JISCMail acceptable use policy https://sites.google.com/site/pscicomjiscmail/the-small-print

**********************************************************************