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Peter, neither David Bircumshaw or me have anything to do with Cambridge, but you know this. i should think David is foaming at the mouth to be linked to them. I'm not, I think I'd quite like people to think I went to Cambridge and not just to Trent Park College of Education. I never mentioned your inclusion on the Forward list because I think it's enough to deal with one prickly question at a time, especially as only the day before you said here that prizes have nothing to do with poetry - so yes, I thought, ummm, what does Peter think then? shall I ask him, no, let's just see what comes up - nothing came up. Yes it's bloody good to see your name there and yes I've read the representative poems of which (not crawling, honest, just pawing the ground a bit) yours is light years.... Oh I can't say it, it's embarrassing. A couple of years ago when my mate Steve Spence got his book shortlisted for the Forward we had a right laugh about it, and so did he, but we were all genuinely pleased, not just for him, but for the fact that a poetry such as his had broken through that barrier. It was a piece of rubbish that won it of course, but, you know, tiny steps... Cheers Tim On 6 Oct 2015, at 10:47, Peter Riley wrote: > Carrie, I have to agree with this. People are entitled to dislike anything, but when it comes to any kind of success the odour of sour grapes is overpowering. Not just in this "community" -- I'm very familiar with this tone from a long association with "Cambridge". They are all such unbelievably nice people when you meet them (well this lot are). > > I found that the entire body of "innovative" poets greeted my shortlisting for the Forward Prize with total silence, which continues; again not only here, but also in that politico-poetry enclave deriving from the (far more human) J.H.Prynne's teachings. Most of them over there probably haven't registered the fact yet. I began eventually to think it was regarded as some kind of disgrace, like being accused of absconding with the church funds, best not mentioned. These are both zones where I thought I had some support or respect which was mutual. > > Peter > > > > On 6 Oct 2015, at 02:19, Jamie McKendrick wrote: > > Hi Carrie, > From some quarters of the list, I'm afraid, you're more likely to hear the cheerless sound of derisive laughter, in this case directed at someone who has yet to publish a book of poems. An unpleasant world to be entering. Clare Harmon has written, among other things, a fine biography of R.L.Stevenson, so I don't think she needs to pay any attention. > Jamie