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Well, Mackey is, or was — I think he’s retired — well ensconced in academia, as is David Marriott. Perloff’s name is trotted out because she’s the apologist, par excellence, for the L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poets, especially Bernstein, Silliman and Watten. And that group is nothing but white. In that very rough age group (Perloff’s and the LangPo crowd’s) you’ve got Baraka (older still) and Mackey (a bit younger) but very few others, so there may well be a generational thing going on here. And the usual problem of an older generation not recognising the qualities of the next-but-one generation.

Tony



On 24 Aug 2015, at 18:30, David Lace <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Sorry for the following long quote, Mark, but it seems to be Hong's main point.

Yes, there are no doubt black avantgarde poets (the ones you mention) but do they operate within the same academic sphere that Perloff could be seen as representing, or are they marginalised from it. I mean in general.



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"Marjorie Perloff, preeminent critic and academic gatekeeper of avant-garde poetry, has on numerous occasions shared her distaste for identity politics literature.  Here is an excerpt she wrote for the MLA newsletter:

'Under the rubrics of African American, other minorities, and post-colonial, a lot of important and exciting novels and poems are surely studied. But what about what is not studied? Suppose a student wants to study James Joyce or Gertrude Stein? Virginia Woolf or T.E. Lawrence or George Orwell? William Faulkner or Frank O’Hara? The literature of World Wars I and II? The Great Depression? The impact of technology on poetry and fiction? Modernism? Existentialism? What of the student who has a passionate interest in her or his literary world—a world that encompasses the digital as well as print culture but does not necessarily differentiate between the writings of one subculture or one theoretical orientation and another?  Where do such prospective students turn?.

I found this excerpt in the scholar Dorothy Wang’s excellent book, Thinking Its Presence: Form, Race, and Subjectivity in Contemporary Asian American Poetry. Wang notices that in this excerpt, Perloff immediately sets up a kind of “us vs. them” opposition, which is of course a favored rhetorical tool used by avant-garde schools in the past from Futurists and Dadaists to Language School poets. Avant-garde manifestos have always assumed a tone of masculine and expansionist militancy, enforcing an aggressive divide-and-conquer framework to grab the reader’s attention. Of course, this “us vs. them” rhetoric can be used to an exhilarating effect when there is a revolutionary legitimacy to that opposition, when “we” are the rabble-rousing outliers and “they” are the hegemonic majority. But Perloff sets up an opposition that’s far more disconcerting: oddly, the hegemony has become the nameless hordes of “African Americans, other minorities, and post-colonials” while “us,” those victimized students who are searching for endangered “true” literature (read as "white") are the outliers (since when has Ulysses taken a nose-dive from the canon’s summit down to the rare-and-hard-to-find-books list?).  From her Boston Review essay “Poetry on the Brink” where she lambasts Rita Dove, to countless other instances, Perloff has persistently set up these racially encoded oppositions and the sentiment is always the same: these indistinguishable minority writers with their soft, mediocre poetry and fiction are taking over our literature. How is this advocate of experimental poetry any different from the icon of literary conservatism, Harold Bloom, who once declared that writers like Sherman Alexie are “enemies of the aesthetic who are in the act of overwhelming us?” Although Perloff has made these misguided observations for years, no one has taken her to task for it until recently, as if poets in the experimental community, afraid to fall from her good graces, look away as one looks away during Thanksgiving dinner when an aunt might complain how “those people” are driving down the property value of “our neighborhood.”"




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Off the top of my head (it's all I have time for), Haryette Mullen, Nathaniel Mackey, Will Alexander. There are lots of others in their 20s to 50s. Nowhere near parity, but Hong really overstates her case. Where is there parity in US society anyway?