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In hard terms it more or less can state the situation in terms many won't approve of but often "community writer" is equally harsh Patrick. Then many publishers have specific "out people" & "in people". The term "body of work" I have often heard from poets well known on this forum. In crude business terms that means "you're not on my level pleb!". The actual blog seems to have vanished into cyberspace or my browser is out of sync. In local writing groups one meets superb writers but to be published in book form requires cash and literary kudos or simply nepotism. It is rare for a small or large press to publish a total unknown Patrick. I take your points with respect but also feel what is or was said has valid angles on modern times. -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] To: BRITISH-IRISH-POETS <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 15:12 Subject: Re: Poetry On Trial: 2. “Poetry and Tribalism” by Jon Stone Re It made me think there may be a fourth clan: Amateur poets. Largely self-involved and little interested in poetrybeyond their ownwritings, which are often memoirvignettes broken into baldly poetic lines.Often self-publishing and ready to read at any local open mike or poetry club that will allowthem to hold forth. Probably larger by numbers than any of the other three groups individually orcombined. Sounds like me there !!def baldy not bawdy always and holding forth little interested in the beyond and god help us ‘self publishing – we should be banned -go in a corner and die !!and let the professionals get on with it!!! – (humph!! J) I mean writing poetry !! –hey could be for fun even!!!!From: British & Irish poets [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Sean Carey Sent: 28 July 2015 00:06 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Poetry On Trial: 2. “Poetry and Tribalism” by Jon StoneImpressive and very welcome & more on it anon Verily the moon winked! -----Original Message----- From: 000000488a473c60-dmarc-request <[log in to unmask]> To: BRITISH-IRISH-POETS <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Sun, Jul 26, 2015 05:40 PM Subject: Re: Poetry On Trial: 2. “Poetry and Tribalism” by Jon Stone Well stated and fair,if high-level, treatment of the contemporary poetryscene. Ofcourseeach group could be sliced& diced into many sub-groupings. It made me think there may be a fourth clan: Amateur poets. Largely self-involved and little interested in poetrybeyond their ownwritings, which are often memoirvignettes broken into baldly poetic lines.Often self-publishing and ready to read at any local open mike or poetry club that will allowthem to hold forth. Probably larger by numbers than any of the other three groups individually orcombined. One other observation: Even the 'mainstream', except for perhaps a handful 'break-out' stars, is nearly invisible in the larger contemporary cultural environment dominated by popular music, movies and television, social media, etc. Finnegan www.urpsrache.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 14:47:54 +0100 From: Tim Allen <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Poetry On Trial: 2. “Poetry and Tribalism” by Jon Stone Interesting essay David - clear, well written and for the most part realistic yet optimistic. A bit too neat maybe, the three tribes thing, or is it? There are some poetries and individual poets that do not fit in with the three tribes notion - hi there Peter! Going to read it again now. Cheers Tim A On 23 Jul 2015, at 19:49, David Lace wrote: > Poetry On Trial: 2. “Poetry and Tribalism” by Jon Stone > > http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2012/04/15/poetry-on-trial-2-poetry-and-tribalism-by-jon-stone/