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This discussion is getting tocksick.


On Jul 1, 2015, at 3:03 PM, Joel Davis <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

I checked the database (thanks, Joe!) and "Buttocks" spelled exactly thus goes all the way back to Malory, and was really common in the 16th and early 17th centuries, too. 

Now, why someone cut a heart-shaped bookmark so that just that triplet remained complete, and why it wound up in Astrophil and Stella just at sonnet 24 ("Rich fools there be," one of the several that play at the expense of Penelope Rich's husband) -- those questions linger. Probably just a coincidence, but a fun one. Thanks again! 

Joel B Davis
Associate Professor
English Department
Stetson University
421 N Woodland Blvd Unit 8300
DeLand, FL 32723
386.822.7720



On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 5:44 PM, Hannibal Hamlin <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
The Buttocke of the Night sounds extremely scary. Isn't there a character of that name in The Magic Flute?

Thanks, Joe, for the very useful link, which I look forward to exploring.

Hannibal



On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 12:23 PM, John K Leonard <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Re: orthography, Shakespeare, Cor. 2.1 (FF) has 'Buttocke': 'more with the Buttocke of the night, then with the forhead of the morning' 
 
On 07/01/15, David Lohnes <[log in to unmask]> wrote:


Yeah, I noticed that in the link that you sent the other day. That looks really cool. I've been out of the loop for several years, but I know you and David Miller and others are doing a lot in the digital humanities. Very exciting.

Definitely will keep it in mind for the future. Thanks!

On Jul 1, 2015, at 8:59 AM, Loewenstein, Joseph <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

On orthography, you folks should have a look at the tool available at EarlyPrint.wustl.edu.  It’s much more reliable and revealing than OED.




On Jul 1, 2015, at 7:54 AM, David Lohnes <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

I regret to say it's not much of a story and involves no real buttocks:

I checked the OED online. 


On Jul 1, 2015, at 8:37 AM, Hannibal Hamlin <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

I enjoyed it very much too -- thanks to you all. And am I the only one, David, curious about how you know the orthographical history of buttock? :)

Hannibal



On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 7:02 PM, David Lohnes <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Thanks for the clarification on Great Britain, Katherine. A seemingly sound assumption shows itself unsound yet again.

And thanks to Joel for the thread. I found it diverting.

On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 1:12 AM, Katherine Eggert <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Another untutored hunch here, but I too would put my money on the verse’s referring to Mary of Modena. Some of the rumors were that she had never been pregnant at all, and faked her pregnancy with a cushion. Hence her son James Francis Edward, supposed to have been smuggled into the birthing chamber in a warming-pan, would be the verse’s “Prince of a Pillow.” Mary was also rumored to have had affairs with Louis XIV, the Papal Nuncio to England Ferdinando D’adda, and/or her confessor, Father Petre, so there might be some reference to the baby’s having multiple possible fathers in “Four Pater Nosters.”

 

Re: buttocks and pillows, an idle few minutes spent on the UC Santa Barbara Ballad Archive gives us this scurrilous little ditty on the doings before the Glorious Revolution called “The Orange,” where the serving woman of the “open-arse” Queen – who can’t bear the smell of oranges – “with Cushings [cushions] and Warming-Pans labourd to bilk / This same Orange”: http://ebba.english.ucsb.edu/ballad/32536/xml. And just for fun, here’s Mary of Modena rocking the baby’s cradle with Father Petre leering behind her: http://digital.nls.uk/jacobite-prints-and-broadsides/pageturner.cfm?id=75241040. Note the orange on the table.

 

The only disagreement I’d have with David Lohnes is on the date of the verse. The same Santa Barbara Ballad Archive has lots of broadsides using “Great Britain” well before 1707, including ballads on the coronations of Charles II and James II.

 

All in all, quite  a strange verse to make a heart-shaped bookmark out of!

 

Katherine

 

Katherine Eggert

Associate Professor of English

University of Colorado at Boulder

226 UCB

Boulder, CO 80309-0226

[log in to unmask]

 

From: Sidney-Spenser Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Lohnes
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 3:29 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Identify verses?

 

So, I'm just going to throw this out there. Take it as the untutored result of fifteen minutes of Googling.



I read it as referring to the threat of Jacobitism.

I take the Queen to be Mary of Modena, James II's widow who had wanted to be a nun, and who spent much time in a convent after her husband's death. The whipping of the buttocks would refer to (scurrilous in this context) penitential practices in the convent.

The "true heir" would be her son, James Francis Edward, who was rumored to have been an impostor brought into the birthing room after the real son of James II was stillborn. Jacobites (and Louis XIV of France) recognized James Francis as James III, the rightful king of England.

The four pater nosters would be a reference to the Catholicism espoused by the Jacobite pretender and his followers.

This would place the lines somewhere between the Act of Union in 1707 and the death of James Francis in 1766, but probably before the death of Mary of Modena in 1718.

So I would place my roulette tokens on 1707-1718.

And if I had to guess, written and printed by university students.


 

On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 3:49 PM, Hannibal Hamlin <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

I'm no help in identifying the lines, but I'm intrigued to add another example to the sub-genre of "litany poem" I argued for in my "Poetic Re-creation in John Donne's 'A Litany.'" In addition to Donne's poem, there is Sidney's "Ring out your bells," Fulke Greville's Caelica XCVIII, and Herrick's "His Letanie, to the Holy Spirit," among others. There are other naughty ones, too.

Hannibal

 

On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Joel Davis <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Friends and colleagues,

Can anyone help identify these triplets? They are printed on a heart-shaped bookmark I found in a copy of Sidney's Arcadia; someone made the bookmark by cutting up a printed page. I'm guessing they are part of a satire on James II or perhaps Charles II. I have tried LION, the ESTC, and the Union First-Line Index. Suggestions appreciated!

 

From Whipping a Queen when her Buttocks are bare:

From a Prince of a Pillow, Great Britain's true Heir:

From four Pater Nosters in one Morning Pray'r.

                                                   Good Lord deliver [us]

 

Joel 

 

 

Joel B Davis

Associate Professor

English Department

Stetson University

421 N Woodland Blvd Unit 8300

DeLand, FL 32723

 

 

 



--

Hannibal Hamlin
Professor of English
The Ohio State University

Author of The Bible in Shakespeare, now available through all good bookshops, or direct from Oxford University Press at http://ukcatalogue.oup.com/product/9780199677610.do

Editor, Reformation
164 West 17th Ave., 421 Denney Hall
Columbus, OH 43210-1340
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--
Hannibal Hamlin
Professor of English
The Ohio State University
Author of The Bible in Shakespeare, now available through all good bookshops, or direct from Oxford University Press at http://ukcatalogue.oup.com/product/9780199677610.do
Editor, Reformation
164 West 17th Ave., 421 Denney Hall
Columbus, OH 43210-1340
[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]
[log in to unmask]



 



--
Hannibal Hamlin
Professor of English
The Ohio State University
Author of The Bible in Shakespeare, now available through all good bookshops, or direct from Oxford University Press at http://ukcatalogue.oup.com/product/9780199677610.do
Editor, Reformation
164 West 17th Ave., 421 Denney Hall
Columbus, OH 43210-1340
[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]
[log in to unmask]