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Yes, all that stuff about theatre in Mansfield Park. I learned what to say sufficiently to pass as a lit crit altar boy; but never empathised and there's an oddity for me in Trolopppe (can never remember if it's one or 2 ps, so I have added them together) in Mr Scarborough I think where to be declared illegitimate changes everything - there almost a litany of authorial voice sins given as a consequence I'm not sure that differences arise the further we are away in time; but it cuts in quickly. I'd be lost in the world of my own youth - they do things differently there L On 7 June 2015 at 19:23, Douglas Barbour <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Thanks for all this, Lawrence. > > I too have had one experience of the ‘transcendental’ or whatever.It was, > surpassingly, walking back to my digs after having see a fine production of > Endgame: suddenly I was way above myself,watching both me & others arose > the street, waling along. from my advantage point.Then I was back in my > body, & wondering… > > Does make a person think, about the potential in our mind/body, at least… > As a reader of SF & F, I am willing to be speculated upon… > > For the rest, yes, alien indeed, that Elidus, & others. I used to suggest > that my first year student read Jane Austen the way they might read a SF > novel about a very different culture, but this one was in the sat rather > than the future. > > Doug > On Jun 5, 2015, at 5:19 AM, Lawrence Upton <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > > Thanks for this Doug > > > > Bluntly, he can access those levels to the degree I can; and I am writing > > him! Because I am writing him. > > > > > > I make it less easy for myself by not being clear when he lived. In the > > whole, still in the writing, I invoke exile for heresy (4th century C E > the > > only recorded instance) and a possible meeting with Olaf Tryggvason (10th > > century). Though I have a way round that. Ways. > > > > > > There's such a wide range of shifts in knowledge, understanding blah blah > > in those 6 – 7 centuries > > > > > > I have difficulties with belief whatever the creed. On the other hand I > > know (believe!) from my own experience of the transcendental. > > > > > > Some years ago I spoke here of seeing a ghost and was “chided” by one who > > does not believe in ghosts. I replied that I don't either; but I had seen > > one. > > > > > > Whether there was anything substantial there to be seen, I am rather > > doubtful. I suspect my brain added to its input or modified it. > > > > > > It is the same I suggest with the transcendental. I realise that I am > > using that very loosely, too loosely, ill-digested Harry Stottel via > > ill-digested Coleridge and perhaps with a smidgen of Harry Potter. > > > > > > Bliss was it to be alive, stuff. > > > > Mood swings. > > > > Pursuance of the beautiful. > > > > A doubting materialist. > > > > > > I had an RC upbringing and practised till I was 14; and I sometimes won > > prizes – plastic Virgin Mary's; so I have a start; though how helpful > that > > is to deal with Celtic church miscreants I am doubtful. (There's an event > > at the beginning of the 13th century in west cornwall where an inspector > > called from Exeter and found them worshipping God and his expanded > heavenly > > family in the church + what seems to have been a water goddess. And up > the > > road at Zennor there is in the church of St Senara (first mentioned with > a > > similar name 10th century) where mermaids lure men from church and there > is > > a mermaid's chair, carved with water spirits, with no date but maybe 600 > > years according to one date perhaps plucked from the soggy air. > > > > > > Scilly / Ennor was then much more remote – separated by the lost lands of > > Lyonnesse and also by the geological impossibility of Lyonnesse having > sunk > > there > > > > > > So that's the context of Elidius. > > > > > > Help. (In case I have never said: I have met a man who seriously – took > me > > a while to take him seriously – believes (in quotes) that he was > piskey-led > > and left alone and palely loitering. That would have been during the > latter > > half of the last century – 1970 +) > > > > > > That gives me an insight to my construct Elidius; but no more. MY > > construct. > > > > > > As I find it impossible to cope with such beliefs, as opposed to accruing > > evidence of them, I find it difficult to portray a dark ages evangelist > > surrounded by such hocus pocus, especially when he's half inclined to > > disbelief. > > > > > > I think it is inevitable that I will misconstruct him. So much of the > past > > is not understand and often assigned to “ritual purposes”. Perhaps if I > > could be true to the potential reality it might be less interesting than > I > > hope it is. > > > > > > I suspect that I at any rate would find the real E alien – just as the > > folk “Cuddy” is probably more amenable to us than the real St Cuthbert – > I > > just grab that comparison without much thought. > > > > > > L > > > > > > On 3 June 2015 at 21:30, Douglas Barbour <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > >> I do too, but feel a sense of many times layered upon one another. > Almost > >> feel that first line should be ‘else when’ in that the metaphorical > >> connections seem to be as much to computer readouts as to vellum, which > the > >> ‘memory updates’ also suggests. > >> > >> Elidus, or we, access a number of possibilities, here across the > >> centuries which he’ apparently, can on some level access… > >> > >> Doug > >> On Jun 2, 2015, at 10:52 AM, Sheila Murphy <[log in to unmask]> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Lawrence, when I read this, I go somewhere that is powerful in terms of > >>> integration of feelings from multiple places. I am not inclined to > >> analyze. > >>> Instead, I go with you, I go with what you propose. It is a very strong > >> and > >>> honest venture. I really love the power of it. > >>> > >>> Sheila > >>> > >>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 9:27 AM, Lawrence Upton < > [log in to unmask]> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> If I lived elsewhere, this version had died > >>>> > >>>> in draft, crossed through and much overwritten – > >>>> > >>>> as once I was foetal, fishlike. There are, > >>>> > >>>> of us, ocean qualities; though we need boats > >>>> > >>>> for life, bringing us to dry mountain tops. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Ghosts jangle their ways into their lost peace, > >>>> > >>>> denying that which they must acknowledge. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> What I have been, my pen pushes through me, > >>>> > >>>> writing all that I am since becoming. > >>>> > >>>> My hand and I are guided. Like a beast > >>>> > >>>> led to new pasture. Or a well-fed horse > >>>> > >>>> suddenly burdened by someone not itself, > >>>> > >>>> of doubtable love, spurring; who does no harm > >>>> > >>>> yet leads it into harm. I am too young > >>>> > >>>> in brain to do anything otherwise. I am > >>>> > >>>> here now; and now is all I’ve ever known. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> He whose experience taught me of him > >>>> > >>>> is not accessible today. Not here. > >>>> > >>>> My memory updates a teacher’s chalk list. > >>>> > >>>> My imposed tasks and my weird brief identity. > >>>> > >>>> All of my now lost years are new leaf mould > >>>> > >>>> and myth. My poor recall’s a charm on the dead. > >>>> > >> > >> Douglas Barbour > >> [log in to unmask] > >> > >> Recent publications: (With Sheila E Murphy) Continuations & > Continuation 2 > >> (UofAPress). > >> Recording Dates (Rubicon Press). > >> > >> There is no life that does not rise > >> melodic from scales of the marvelous. > >> > >> To which our grief refers. > >> > >> Robert Duncan. > >> > > Douglas Barbour > [log in to unmask] > > Recent publications: (With Sheila E Murphy) Continuations & Continuation 2 > (UofAPress). > Recording Dates (Rubicon Press). > > There is no life that does not rise > melodic from scales of the marvelous. > > To which our grief refers. > > Robert Duncan. >