Hi - I did find the comment very interesting that they are not set up to detect fraudulent certificates. That said I could not find any press release from the NMC on this so I am not sure how attributable the comments are.

 

I worked for 15 years in HR and in one of my jobs involved verifying new hires (it was an organisation with a degree of security risk).  It is, with the right experience, fairly easy to sift out fraudulent certificates and references - but it is not just a case of looking at the certificate.

 

I do feel that organisations who employ nurses should be paying for the NMC - I don’t believe they do at the moment - as it seems a strange system that the organisations that actually need its services don’t pay to fund them!

 

I would say 90% of qualification screening is fairly straight forward.  For the 10% that isn’t, it is feasible to discount some applicants as safe, but invariably falsified documents can be identified and I have dealt with many cases of this - not just for UK applicants.

 

I think what this suggests is that the NMC may not be geared up to effectively screen applicants from abroad.  There are organisations that specialists in this and I would suggest they should be looking at devolving the checking of basic qualifications to an organisation with the skills to do this.

 

The NMC could then focus on actually ensuring the fitness of those applicants and the relevancy of their qualifications to practice.  To try to do all of this in-house in an increasingly global profession may be beyond their scope - the world has changed and the NMC needs to look at how it adapts to respond to that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 20 May 2015, at 09:33, Ciccone, Grant <[log in to unmask]);" target=_blank>javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[log in to unmask]);> wrote:

 

There needs to be a radical overhaul of the NMC.  I am not sure if going over to the Health Professions Council is appropriate option and would resolve any issues.  The NMC is handling too many registrants to be an effective regulator.  I have always suggested that the Midwives should have their own General Midwifery Council and let them regulate themselves.  I am not sure if returning to the good old/bad days of the UKCC or GNC would see regulation improve.

 

I do feel that with the Chua case, the NMC has to take some responsibility in its failure in checking the supposed qualifications/registration of this individual.

 

From: [log in to unmask]);" target=_blank>javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[log in to unmask]); [[log in to unmask]);" target=_blank>javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[log in to unmask]);] On Behalf Of Lynda Wright
Sent: 20 May 2015 09:25
To: [log in to unmask]);" target=_blank>javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[log in to unmask]);
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Nurse Qualification Checks

 

How many companies realise they should check our registration status with the NMC when we apply for a job? Many of us work in a outside the NHS. Is it possible there are unregistered practitioners practicing  Occupational Health  nursing?

 

Food for thought

 

Lynda

 

From: karen coomer <[log in to unmask]);" target=_blank>javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[log in to unmask]);>
Reply-To: Occupational Health mailing list <[log in to unmask]);" target=_blank>javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[log in to unmask]);>
Date: Tuesday, 19 May 2015 21:38
To: Occupational Health mailing list <[log in to unmask]);" target=_blank>javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[log in to unmask]);>
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Nurse Qualification Checks

 

What we all have to do is keep our fingers crossed that the law commission bill on the regulation of healthcare professions goes through in the next parliamentary timetable – this will reform regulators such as the NMC and force a rethink of part 3 of the register which is long overdue. I am sad enough to read the select committee reports on health and as far back as 2011 there has been serious concerns about the NMC and it is due to these concerns they have been obliged to bring in revalidation, update the code of conduct and bring in a legal requirements for indemnity insurance.

 

This terrible case may focus government minds on this important bill.

Karen

 

 

 

 

From: [log in to unmask]);" target=_blank>javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[log in to unmask]); [[log in to unmask]);" target=_blank>javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[log in to unmask]);] On Behalf Of Liz
Sent: 19 May 2015 20:40
To: [log in to unmask]);" target=_blank>javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[log in to unmask]);
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Nurse Qualification Checks

 

Why are we so surprised at the NMC's failings? As far as I can remember, it has always been possible to buy any certification (doctor or nurse) in various street markets across the world. In fact I bet you can now get one off the internet if you search hard enough/know what and where to look .... You certainly can get sick certs/ (not) fit notes easily enough. USA, Canada and Australia (and probably other countries), have always required you to sit professional and English exams if wanting to work as a nurse there. What I want to know is why this has never been on the NMC's radar?

 

I foresee a hike in our registration fee to pay for this appalling case :(

On 19 May 2015, at 13:02, Jane mountain <[log in to unmask]);" target=_blank>javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[log in to unmask]);> wrote:

This is disgusting!  Do anyone have faith in the NMC??

 

Sent from Windows Mail

 

From: [log in to unmask]);" target=_blank>Ciccone, Grant
Sent: Tuesday, 19 May 2015 11:53
To: [log in to unmask]);" target=_blank>Occupational Health mailing list

 

This is shocking Anne!

 

NMC = Not Much Cop!

 

 

 

From: [log in to unmask]);" target=_blank>javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[log in to unmask]); [[log in to unmask]);" target=_blank>javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[log in to unmask]);] On Behalf Of [log in to unmask]);" target=_blank>javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[log in to unmask]);
Sent: 19 May 2015 11:33
To: [log in to unmask]);" target=_blank>javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[log in to unmask]);
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Nurse Qualification Checks

 

Hello Milne
The purpose of the NMC is public protection so they won’t give advice on practice issues. They should  refer practice issues to a professional body eg RCN/RCM.

The NMC have enough difficulty with giving advice about issues they should know about, ie registration. To illustrate: I know of two OHNs who hold qualifications in OH, one at BSc level one at MSc level, both highly respected and managed OH services. For  reasons which I won’t go into as they are complex, neither were on the SCPHN register. They both enquired whether they could map their qualifications to become SCPHNs. The NMC told one of them they could not work in any capacity in OH other than  in an assistant role – the equivalent of a health care assistant and they were not to call themselves an OHN nor could they tell anyone they had a degree in OH Nursing.  The other, who held an MSc  accessed by nurses, doctors (confers AFOM/MFoM on completion) and other health and safety professionals from a very well respected UK university, was told that they would have to complete a return to nursing course. 

Anne


On 19/05/2015 10:49, "Milne Campbell" <[log in to unmask]);" target=_blank>javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[log in to unmask]);> wrote:

When I recently needed advice from the NMC they were worse than useless,
I and a colleague had to consult with our respective unions.
 

<http://www.workingwell2gether.nhs.uk/> 
<http://www.workingwell2gether.nhs.uk/health-wellbeing/national-walking-month-2015/> 


From: [log in to unmask]);" target=_blank>javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[log in to unmask]); [[log in to unmask]);" target=_blank>javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[log in to unmask]);] On Behalf Of [log in to unmask]);" target=_blank>javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[log in to unmask]);
Sent: 19 May 2015 10:27
To: [log in to unmask]);" target=_blank>javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[log in to unmask]);
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Nurse Qualification Checks


I totally agree with your summing up, Sarah. There will always be people who will slip through the net and the NMC’s checking procedures have been tightened . 

I wonder if this will be one more nail in the coffin of the NMC as a regulator – I can see regulation being transferred to the Health Professions’ Council in the future. I understand that there are very few people working for the NMC who are actually nurses, they no longer employ professional advisers who are registrants. I would be sorry to see that happen. There were some nurses, eg Dame Sarah Swift, who fought hard for nurse registration which was a turning point for the profession only happened at the turn of the 20th Century when the General Nursing Council was established. 

Anne


On 19/05/2015 07:20, "Sarah Witwicka" <[log in to unmask]);" target=_blank>javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[log in to unmask]);> wrote:
IMHO, there's always going to someone that "slips through the net", whatever the profession. Dr Harold Shipman and nurse Beverley Allett both qualified in the UK and their qualifications weren't bogus, which makes me think of those who have a particular set of personality traits; the charming, convincing and psychopathic...

bw,

S.

Sent from my iPhone

On 19 May 2015, at 07:00, Sarah Holling <[log in to unmask]);" target=_blank>javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[log in to unmask]);> wrote:
I have read this article with interest, particularly the NMC comments.

The suggested inability to verify the validity of qualifications concerns me, particularly given the role of the regulator. I wondered what others thought about this

Sarah Holling
Mass Poisoning Sparks Foreign Nurses Checks

Mike McCarthy, North of England Correspondent
Convicted poisoner Victorino Chua may well have been practising as a nurse with a phoney diploma.

The revelation has prompted a mass review of qualifications held by foreign nurses in the UK.

His trial and conviction raise potentially disturbing questions about the effectiveness of past recruitment campaigns abroad.

The man who led the police investigation into Chua travelled to the Philippines to check the authenticity of his qualifications.

He concluded that he "could have no confidence that (the nurse's) accreditation would stand scrutiny."

Detective Superintendent Simon Barraclough told Sky News: "I can have no confidence that he actually completed and passed a Bachelor of Science in Nursing.

"And I can have no confidence that he subsequently, within 12 months, took the national nursing exam and qualified as a nurse in Manila."

He believes that a Bachelor of Science degree awarded in Chua's name by the now defunct Galang Medical College in the Philippines may actually have been sat by someone else.

Greater Manchester Police have passed their findings to the Nursing and Midwifery Council (NMC) which is responsible for the registration of nurses in the UK.

Filipino nurses have been the target for major recruitment campaigns in the past.

Some British hospitals say they have been forced to hire from the Philippines to fill staff shortages.

The NMC refuses to discuss Chua's circumstances but says it has carried out extensive sample checks on 14,000 overseas individuals including 11,500 from the Philippines as a result of this case.

It says its findings did not result in any disciplinary action but admitted that it did not have the resources to check whether documents were genuine or fraudulent.

NMC chief executive Jackie Smith said: "What we have done is a proportionate response to the concerns raised about the authenticity of these documents.

"We did a look back exercise between 2002 and 2006 ... for every single Filipino nurse... to see whether the documentation was appropriate.

"We did not find... an individual where we could say 'that is case of fraud'. We are not set up to detect fraud. We are set up to establish that the people who go on our register can practise to UK standards."

She said it was not fair to assume that there were large number of bogus nurses in the system before the NMC came into existence in 2002.

"If there are lots of nurses ... then they haven't come to our attention," she said.

Stepping Hill hospital in Stockport, where Victorino Chua worked, said recruitment of nurses relied on Nursing and Midwifery Council checks.

The hospital's chief executive Ann Barnes said: "At the time he went through our recruitment process thoroughly, properly and was employed as a registered nurse."

But Mr Barraclough said that there was a "higher level of probability" that Chua's qualification was "not bona fide."
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