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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture There's nothing in the _AA.SS._ to support the notion of the relics of Donatian and Rogation having been translated to Nantes in 1145. For the misunderstanding involved, see the early modern references discussed here (what seems to have occurred was merely an ostension in the cathedral): http://www.infobretagne.com/donatien-rogatien.htm The bishop of Ostia in question, referred to in older French-language treatments under the name of Albert, is better known to modern scholarship as Alberic, cardinal bishop of Ostia (d. 1148). See (e.g.): http://www2.fiu.edu/~mirandas/bios1138.htm also, the biographical references in Ryan Freeburn, _Hugh of Amiens and the Twelfth-Century Renaissance_ (Ashgate, 2011), p. 147, n. 1. The Wikipedia article to which Brenda refers impeaches itself earlier when it says (this bit was copied by Matt in his notice of these saints): "Emperor Maximian ordered the prefect Rictius Varus put them to death for refusing to deny their faith. Varus imprisoned them, where they spent their last night praying together." "Rictius Varus" is absent both from these saints' Passio (BHL 2275) as given in the _AA.SS._ and from their reading (BHL 2276) reproduced in _AB_ 8 (1889), 163-64. He is obviously the persecutor Rictiovarus named in a whole cycle of northern French _passiones_ and now considered (except, evidently, by Wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rictius_Varus>) as quite legendary. See (e.g.) this in the old _Catholic Encyclopedia_, s.v. "Diocese of Beauvais": "The martyrdom of St. Romana under Diocletian, of St. Just during the atrocious persecution by the legendary Rictiovarus (about 419)," <http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02377c.htm>. and T. D. Barnes' dismissal of him as invented (_The New Empire of Diocletian and Constantine_ [Harvard Univ. Pr., 1982], p. 190). Someone who asserts as a matter of fact that "Rictius Varus" did anything and who withholds from his/her readership any reference to the well known doubts as to this person's very existence has forfeited the right to be taken seriously as a credible source of information. Best, John Dillon On 05/26/15, Ms B M Cook wrote: > > Can anyone clarify a point re R & D. Just where were their relics transferred to in 1145?. According to wiki they went back to Nantes (where they were martyred) having being sent to Orleans after the martyrdom of St Got(h)ard in the 9th C to escape the Viking incursions. They are known as "Les Enfants Nantaise". (The boys from Nantes.) and are commemorated in the present Nantes Cathedral. However another on-line source says the relics were sent to Ostia !! (OSTIA ??) And that the then Bishop of Ostia (Albert ?) was involved. I do not recall having seen anything about a translation to Nantes in 1145 in any of the relevant histories I’ve been using (but you never know). Does anyone have access to the Bollandists’ listings? > > If the translation was back to Nantes in 1145 it will make me a nice little footnote! > > Brenda > Brenda M. Cook > Independent Scholar > > > > From: Heintzelman, Matthew > Sent: Monday, May 25, 2015 3:24 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [M-R] FEAST - Two Saints for the day (May 24): Donatian and Rogatian > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > > https://www.facebook.com/604882972899463/photos/a.624764970911263.1073741830.604882972899463/820068288047596/?type=1&theater > > > > “Emperor Maximian ordered the prefect Rictius Varus to put them to death for refusing to deny their faith. Varus imprisoned them, where they spent their last night praying together. The next day, May 24, they were tortured on the rack and decapitated.” > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donatian_and_Rogatian) > > > > Peace, > > > > Matt H. > ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion