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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Yes, though I still would have expected them to go for flashier options like fictive marble or fictive textiles (both of which do occur in the region as well). Santo Stefano does look very interesting- the fictive stone over the arcade is flashier than the sort of thing I had in mind, and very like the real stone of the external portals, which makes me wonder whether it originally had the same fictive brick diapers on the outside too (now it's just the bare brick as far as I can see). Paul Hills (thanks to John Dillon earlier today for this reference) points out such brick-diaper work on an external wall in Gentile Bellini's *Miracle at the Bridge at San Lorenzo, *though I'm not sure why he says its fictive. English Tudor buildings had real brick diaper-work, but I digress.... Fun. Laura Dr. Laura Jacobus Senior Lecturer in History of Art Birkbeck College, University of London For details of my book on Giotto and the Arena Chapel see http://www.brepols.net/Pages/ShowProduct.aspx?prod_id=IS-9781905375127-1 On 10 April 2015 at 16:52, Sarah Wilkins <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > Venice, with its more extensive use of brick as building material due to > material considerations, might be an exceptional case? > > I believe that Santo Stefano has fictive brick diaper pattern designs in > its upper levels as well. > > Sarah > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 11:14 AM, Laura Jacobus <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > >> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture >> Jim, you've hit the nail on the head with your query, as I'm trying to >> decide whether the example I've come across was a functional solution to a >> problem (ie. a temporary finish), a purely decorative finish, or one which >> has any deeper significance. From the Medart-L list I got the idea of >> checking out SS Giovanni e Paolo and the Frari in Venice, and they both >> have fictive brickwork as their default wall-surfaces. Embarrassingly, I >> hadn't spotted this, despite being in one of them a few weeks ago. That >> suggests that it was an acceptable decorative surface, though arguably as >> these were Dominican and Franciscan houses it might also have been the >> 'poor' option as opposed to painted stone. >> >> al best >> >> Laura >> >> Dr. Laura Jacobus >> Senior Lecturer in History of Art >> Birkbeck College, University of London >> >> >> For details of my book on Giotto and the Arena Chapel see >> http://www.brepols.net/Pages/ShowProduct.aspx?prod_id=IS-9781905375127-1 >> >> On 10 April 2015 at 15:25, James Bugslag <[log in to unmask]> >> wrote: >> >>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and >>> culture >>> Laura, >>> There are biblical references to masonry which, I'm sure, are behind the >>> idea of painted masonry in general, but as you say, from Roman times, brick >>> was really considered a structural material rather than a finished >>> treatment, and as you are undoubtedly aware, about the only actual >>> brickwork visible on major buildings was either on unfinished facades, e.g. >>> the duomo in Florence through the later Middle Ages, or in peripheral >>> locations, such as the side walls of S. Miniato al Monte, whose facade was, >>> as usual, encased in marble sheathing. One might imagine that, if >>> brickwork were to be painted fictively onto a plaster wall, it might have >>> been intended as a sign of humility, or a rejection of undue expense in >>> building, or some other such negative implication -- or a documentary >>> statement of the unfinished state of a building, perhaps. I'm assuming you >>> have an example of this in mind? >>> Jim >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious >>> culture [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Laura Jacobus [ >>> [log in to unmask]] >>> *Sent:* April 9, 2015 6:29 PM >>> >>> *To:* [log in to unmask] >>> *Subject:* Re: [M-R] Fictive brickwork (in churches) >>> >>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and >>> culture >>> Lovely site on English churches- but no, I'm afraid painted masonry >>> doesn't count. I followed the correspondence on Chartres with great >>> interest (for me the issue was not whether the restoration was accurate but >>> whether it's right to strip back the layers in that way... but I wouldn't >>> want to open that can of worms again). Fictive ashlar masonry wasn't >>> uncommon (and the English church site gives other examples, though it >>> sometimes calls it brickwork), but that's because ashlar was a prestige >>> building material and you'd want your walls to look as if they were made of >>> dressed stone even/especially if they weren't. Brick was a much humbler >>> material, and it's far from obvious why anyone would want to imitate it in >>> paint- which is why I'm interested to know of examples. >>> >>> all best, and thanks >>> >>> Laura >>> >>> Dr. Laura Jacobus >>> Senior Lecturer in History of Art >>> Birkbeck College, University of London >>> >>> >>> For details of my book on Giotto and the Arena Chapel see >>> http://www.brepols.net/Pages/ShowProduct.aspx?prod_id=IS-9781905375127-1 >>> >>> On 9 April 2015 at 19:26, Pridgeon, Ellie (Dr.) <[log in to unmask]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and >>>> culture >>>> Hello Laura >>>> >>>> For more information on fictive stone or brickwork commonly found in >>>> English churches see: >>>> >>>> http://paintedchurch.org/backgrou.htm >>>> >>>> Ellie >>>> >>>> Dr Ellie Pridgeon, BA, MA, PhD, Arch Dip >>>> Tutor in Art History & Architecture >>>> BA and Certificate Courses >>>> University of Leicester >>>> >>>> Archivist, Church Monuments Society >>>> <http://www.churchmonumentssociety.org/> >>>> Medieval Wall Paintings Website: >>>> http://medievalwallpaintings.wordpress.com >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From:* medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval >>>> religious culture [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of John >>>> Shinners [[log in to unmask]] >>>> *Sent:* 09 April 2015 18:56 >>>> *To:* [log in to unmask] >>>> *Subject:* Re: [M-R] Fictive brickwork (in churches) >>>> >>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and >>>> culture >>>> Does masonry count as brick? The controversial restoration of Chartres >>>> has uncovered faux painted masonry. In a response to Martin Filler's >>>> blistering criticism of the restoration, Madeline Caviness and Jeffrey >>>> Hamburger write: >>>> "Careful archaeological work, beginning with that conducted as early as >>>> the 1980’s by the German scholar Jürgen Michler, has demonstrated beyond >>>> doubt that the church’s interior originally was painted in a light ochre, >>>> with regular false masonry added in white, which often bears little >>>> resemblance to the coursing of the underlying ashlar masonry. The current >>>> restoration adheres religiously to this scheme. Such false masonry was >>>> commonplace in medieval churches." >>>> http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2014/dec/17/new-chartres-exchange/ >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> John >>>> >>>> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Laura Jacobus <[log in to unmask]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and >>>>> culture >>>>> Hello. Does anyone know of any instances where a medieval wall has >>>>> been painted to imitiate brick? I'm aware that in Northern Europe one >>>>> could sometimes find imitation ashlar, and fictive textiles seem to have >>>>> been in all sorts of places- but fictive brick?? >>>>> >>>>> I'm also sending this to the medieval religion list because I'm >>>>> particularly interested to know of any examples in churches, so apologies >>>>> for cross-posting. >>>>> >>>>> Laura >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dr. Laura Jacobus >>>>> Senior Lecturer in History of Art >>>>> Birkbeck College, University of London >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> For details of my book on Giotto and the Arena Chapel see >>>>> http://www.brepols.net/Pages/ShowProduct.aspx?prod_id=IS-9781905375127-1 >>>>> ********************************************************************** >>>>> To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME >>>>> to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it >>>>> to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the >>>>> message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In >>>>> order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >>>>> [log in to unmask] For further information, >>>>> visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> John Shinners >>>> Professor, Schlesinger Chair in Humanistic Studies >>>> Saint Mary's College >>>> Notre Dame, Indiana 46556 >>>> Phone: 574-284-4494 or 574-284-4534 >>>> Fax: 284-4855 >>>> www.saintmarys.edu/~hust >>>> >>>> "Learn everything. Later you will see that nothing is superfluous." -- >>>> Hugh of St. Victor (d. 1141) >>>> >>>> ********************************************************************** To >>>> join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: >>>> [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: >>>> [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: >>>> unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to >>>> report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >>>> [log in to unmask] For further information, >>>> visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion >>>> ********************************************************************** >>>> To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME >>>> to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it >>>> to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the >>>> message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In >>>> order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >>>> [log in to unmask] For further information, >>>> visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion >>>> >>> >>> ********************************************************************** >>> To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME >>> to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it >>> to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the >>> message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In >>> order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >>> [log in to unmask] For further information, visit >>> our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion >>> >>> ********************************************************************** To >>> join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: >>> [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: >>> [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: >>> unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to >>> report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >>> [log in to unmask] For further information, visit >>> our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion >>> >> >> ********************************************************************** To >> join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: >> [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: >> [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: >> unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to >> report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >> [log in to unmask] For further information, visit >> our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion > > > > > -- > Sarah S. Wilkins, PhD > Visiting Assistant Professor > Pratt Institute > History of Art and Design Department > 200 Willoughby Avenue > Brooklyn, NY 11205 > > Chair, Emerging Scholars Committee > Italian Art Society > http://italianartsociety.org > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/iasesc > https://www.facebook.com/groups/GSESC > ********************************************************************** To > join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: > [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: > [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: > unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to > report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: > [log in to unmask] For further information, visit > our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion > ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion