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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Thanks Jane. Alas, when I comes to Latin, I am pretty much an* ignoramus*. However, I did see a translation of parts of your quote in one of the links in an earlier message. I say again, you people are marvelous. Thanks, Richard. On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 6:29 PM, Jane Stemp Wickenden < [log in to unmask]> wrote: > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > > > With the addition of the awful Aelle/alleluia pun: > > Nec silentio praetereunda opinio, quae de beato Gregorio traditione > maiorum ad nos usque perlata est; qua uidelicet ex causa admonitus tam > sedulam erga salutem nostrae gentis curam gesserit. Dicunt, quia die quadam > cum, aduenientibus nuper mercatoribus, multa uenalia in forum fuissent > conlata, multi ad emendum confluxissent, et ipsum Gregorium inter alios > aduenisse, ac uidisse inter alia pueros uenales positos candidi corporis, > ac uenusti uultus, capillorum quoque forma egregia. Quos cum aspiceret, > interrogauit, ut aiunt, de qua regione uel terra essent adlati. Dictumque > est, quia de Brittania insula, cuius incolae talis essent aspectus. Rursus > interrogauit, utrum idem insulani Christiani, an paganis adhuc erroribus > essent inplicati. Dictum est, quod essent pagani. At ille, intimo ex corde > longa trahens suspiria: ‘Heu, pro dolor!’ inquit, ‘quod tam lucidi uultus > homines tenebrarum auctor possidet, tantaque gratia frontispicii mentem ab > interna gratia uacuam gestat!’ Rursus ergo interrogauit, quod esset > uocabulum gentis illius. Responsum est, quod Angli uocarentur. At ille: > ‘Bene,’ inquit; ‘nam et angelicam habent faciem, et tales angelorum in > caelis decet esse coheredes. Quod habet nomen ipsa prouincia, de qua isti > sunt adlati?’ Responsum est, quod Deiri uocarentur idem prouinciales. At > ille: ‘Bene,’ inquit, ‘Deiri; de ira eruti, et ad misericordiam Christi > uocati. Rex prouinciae illius quomodo appellatur?’ Responsum est, quod > Aelli diceretur. At ille adludens ad nomen ait: ‘Alleluia, laudem Dei > Creatoris illis in partibus oportet cantari.’ > > http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/bede/bede2.shtml > > Jane > > On 02/04/2015 23:07, richard legault wrote: > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > Ah-ha! I knew it. Is there a reference or document I can look up and get > the quote? > > Rick > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 5:56 PM, Andrew Larsen <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture >> According to Bede, Gregory the Great made that pun several centuries >> earlier. >> >> Andrew E. Larsen >> >> On Apr 2, 2015, at 2:24 PM, richard legault <[log in to unmask]> >> wrote: >> >> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and >> culture >> >> Saint Ivo of Chartres, during his tenure as Bishop of Chartres from 1090 >> and 1115, wrote to Matilda of Scotland, then Queen of England: >> >> *Unde a tua excellentia mutuam promereri cupimus dilectionem, quam >> propter praeclaram memoriam reginae *Angelorum* Mariae, Ecclesiae, cui >> auctore Deo, licet indigni, deservimus, ante tua tempora exhibuerunt >> reginae *Anglorum. >> >> [Wherefore we desire to deserve mutual love from your excellence which >> the queens of the *Angles* before your time showed in splendid memory of >> the queen of the *angels,* Mary, to the church which we though unworthy >> serve by God’s disposition.] >> >> Letter from Ivo, Bishop of Chartres (1100's) to Matilda of Scotland, >> queen of England (my italics) >> >> http://epistolae.ccnmtl.columbia.edu/letter/411.html >> >> >> >> Ivo’s analogy or pun between angels and angles (*Angelorum* and *Anglorum) >> *is clear. >> >> >> My question to the Group is: Did Ivo, Master of the Seven Liberal Arts, >> invent this pun himself or might he have simply used a well-worn cliché >> already in common circulation among those educated in the *Quadrivium*? >> >> Richard J Legault >> ********************************************************************** >> To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME >> to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it >> to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the >> message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In >> order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >> [log in to unmask] For further information, visit >> our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion >> >> ********************************************************************** >> To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME >> to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it >> to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the >> message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In >> order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >> [log in to unmask] For further information, visit >> our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion > > > ********************************************************************** To > join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: > [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: > [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: > unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to > report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: > [log in to unmask] For further information, visit > our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion > > > ********************************************************************** To > join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: > [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: > [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: > unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to > report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: > [log in to unmask] For further information, visit > our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion