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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Thanks. That looks quite real to me from the photograph I found on the internet https://incaelo.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/253773_10150625432300580_893145579_18855231_7640842_n.jpg?w=660, and the site says the walls were once whitewashed.  I do think combinations of whitewashed walls with architectural details picked out in fictive brick are probably quite a common northern European thing. The format goes well with a protestant ethic (in England I think that many of the medieval wall-paintings we have in churches were covered with whitewash during the Reformation), but plain whitewash was probably also the default decoration in many churches before that time, if they couldn't afford more elaborate forms of wall-painting- or maybe didn't approve of them in the case of some orders. 

Amazing that there doesn't seem to be a study of the whole question of why fictive brick was sometimes used under different circumstances, or how common or a choice it was, or the variations that are found.  Looking again at the Venetian examples, I noticed that the Frari fictive brickwork is actually in diaper pattern (as at S. Stefano, which looks like it may be mostly 19th 'restoration'), so not as 'poor' as I'd assumed.  In the early 14thC there was certainly controversy in the order about the use of wall-paintings (Robson and Cooper have used this as the basis for their dating of the Life of St. Francis in Assisi).  

Thanks to all for what has proved/is proving a more thought-provoking thread than I expected.  

all best

Laura

Dr. Laura Jacobus
Senior Lecturer in History of Art
Birkbeck College, University of London

 
For details of my book on Giotto and the Arena Chapel see http://www.brepols.net/Pages/ShowProduct.aspx?prod_id=IS-9781905375127-1

On 13 April 2015 at 02:43, Frans van Liere <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

I’m coming late to this discussion, but just wanted to mention the interior of the church (formerly Cistercian refectory) in Aduard, Groningen (NL.) Painted interior brickwork was more quite common in that region.

 

Frans van Liere

 

Department of History

Calvin College

1845 Knollcrest Circle, SE

Grand Rapids, MI, 49546

 

From: medieval-religio just want to mention - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Laura Jacobus
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2015 2:45 PM
To: [log in to unmask]


Subject: Re: [M-R] Fictive brickwork (in churches)

 

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

On the issue of whether brick=poor or prestigious, I think context is all.  In Renaissance England they did costly things with it (patterning, carving) and there may have been a special aesthetic frisson attached to doing spectacular things with what is after all just baked mud.  In any case, the conspicuous skill involved increased the financial and aesthetic value . I wonder too whether, in some places, it was associated with the rediscovery of a classical Roman heritage. I began this discussion with the imitation of very simple brickwork in mind, and that - I feel- spoke of simplicity (if indeed it spoke at all- which I'm still not sure about).

 

Laura


Dr. Laura Jacobus

Senior Lecturer in History of Art

Birkbeck College, University of London

 

 

For details of my book on Giotto and the Arena Chapel see http://www.brepols.net/Pages/ShowProduct.aspx?prod_id=IS-9781905375127-1

 

On 10 April 2015 at 18:52, Madeleine Gray <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

I was under the impression that brick was actually quite a prestigious building material in the later medieval/early modern period - cf its use for castles (Tattershall) and some major stately homes (Hatfield House; Hampton Court). It could be more expensive than stone and was chosen for aesthetic reasons.

Maddy

 

Madeleine Gray PhD, FRHistS, FSA
Professor of Ecclesiastical History/Athro Hanes Eglwysig
School of Humanities and Social Sciences /Ysgol Ddyniaethau a Gwyddoniaethau Cymdeithasol
University of South Wales/Prifysgol De Cymru
Caerleon Campus/Campws Caerllion,
Newport/Casnewydd  NP18 3QT Tel: +44 (0)1633.432675
http://www.southwales.ac.uk
http://twitter.com/penrhyspilgrim
http://twitter.com/HeritageUSW
http://twitter.com/USWHistory

'Let the victors, when they come, When the forts of folly fall, Find thy body by the wall!'

From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of James Bugslag [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2015 3:25 PM


To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [M-R] Fictive brickwork (in churches)

 

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

Laura,
There are biblical references to masonry which, I'm sure, are behind the idea of painted masonry in general, but as you say, from Roman times, brick was really considered a structural material rather than a finished treatment, and as you are undoubtedly aware, about the only actual brickwork visible on major buildings was either on unfinished facades, e.g. the duomo in Florence through the later Middle Ages, or in peripheral locations, such as the side walls of S. Miniato al Monte, whose facade was, as usual, encased in marble sheathing.  One might imagine that, if brickwork were to be painted fictively onto a plaster wall, it might have been intended as a sign of humility, or a rejection of undue expense in building, or some other such negative implication -- or a documentary statement of the unfinished state of a building, perhaps.  I'm assuming you have an example of this in mind?
Jim

From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Laura Jacobus [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: April 9, 2015 6:29 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [M-R] Fictive brickwork (in churches)

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

Lovely site on English churches- but no, I'm afraid painted masonry doesn't count.  I followed the correspondence on Chartres with great interest (for me the issue was not whether the restoration was accurate but whether it's right to strip back the layers in that way... but I wouldn't want to open that can of worms again).  Fictive ashlar masonry wasn't uncommon (and the English church site gives other examples, though it sometimes calls it brickwork), but that's because ashlar was a prestige building material and you'd want your walls to look as if they were made of dressed stone even/especially if they weren't.  Brick was a much humbler material, and it's far from obvious why anyone would want to imitate it in paint- which is why I'm interested to know of examples.  

 

all best, and thanks

 

Laura


Dr. Laura Jacobus

Senior Lecturer in History of Art

Birkbeck College, University of London

 

 

For details of my book on Giotto and the Arena Chapel see http://www.brepols.net/Pages/ShowProduct.aspx?prod_id=IS-9781905375127-1

 

On 9 April 2015 at 19:26, Pridgeon, Ellie (Dr.) <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

Hello Laura

 

For more information on fictive stone or brickwork commonly found in English churches see: 

 

http://paintedchurch.org/backgrou.htm

 

Ellie

 

Dr Ellie Pridgeon, BA, MA, PhD, Arch Dip
Tutor in Art History & Architecture
BA and Certificate Courses
University of Leicester
 
Archivist, Church Monuments Society
Medieval Wall Paintings Website:
http://medievalwallpaintings.wordpress.com

 

From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of John Shinners [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 09 April 2015 18:56
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [M-R] Fictive brickwork (in churches)

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

Does masonry count as brick? The controversial restoration of Chartres has uncovered faux painted masonry.  In a response to Martin Filler's blistering criticism of the restoration, Madeline Caviness and Jeffrey Hamburger write: 

"Careful archaeological work, beginning with that conducted as early as the 1980’s by the German scholar Jürgen Michler, has demonstrated beyond doubt that the church’s interior originally was painted in a light ochre, with regular false masonry added in white, which often bears little resemblance to the coursing of the underlying ashlar masonry. The current restoration adheres religiously to this scheme. Such false masonry was commonplace in medieval churches."

 

Best,

John

 

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Laura Jacobus <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

Hello.  Does anyone know of any instances where a medieval wall has been painted to imitiate brick?  I'm aware that in Northern Europe one could sometimes find imitation ashlar, and fictive textiles seem to have been in all sorts of places- but fictive brick??

 

I'm also sending this to the medieval religion list because I'm particularly interested to know of any examples in churches, so apologies for cross-posting.

 

Laura

 


Dr. Laura Jacobus

Senior Lecturer in History of Art

Birkbeck College, University of London

 

 

For details of my book on Giotto and the Arena Chapel see http://www.brepols.net/Pages/ShowProduct.aspx?prod_id=IS-9781905375127-1

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Saint Mary's College 
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