On 2015-03-20 4:53 AM, "Gordon Plumb" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

 The gospel of Matthew tells us that Joseph, following the angelic dream " took
her as his wife, but he had no marital relations  with her until she had born a
son." The presumption must be that, at least in the understanding of the author of Matthew,  they thereafter had a normal sexual relationship (and presumably children?). Why, oh why, does the Church get so hung
up over the sinfulness of sexual intercourse! I do seriously wonder if the
stress in the New Testament on Mary's virginity owes a great deal to the Jewish
allegations of Jesus' illegitimacy!


Joseph was sometimes pictured as a cuckold in mystery plays, and in art he is often shown
as a rather bumbling old man. Images of the Holy Family in the 14th and 15th
Century helped to raise him in public esteem. In the 17th Century his cult was
supported by the Jesuits and particularly by St Theresa of Avila. Because of the
Apocryphal "History of Joseph" which records his death in the presence of Jesus
and Mary he became the patron saint of a good death.

Gordon Plumb


-----Original Message-----
From: Ms B M Cook
<[log in to unmask]>
To: MEDIEVAL-RELIGION
<[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 23:24
Subject: Re:
[M-R] St Joseph, husband of the BVM


medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions
of medieval religion and
culture

-----Original Message-----
From: Gordon
Plumb
Sent: Thursday,
March 19, 2015 8:41 AM
To:
[log in to unmask]
Subject: [M-R] St
Joseph, husband of the
BVM

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of
medieval religion and
culture

19th March was the feast of Joseph, but there
is now also the feast of
St
Joseph the Worker on May 1st:

Some random
thoughts -

"Is not this the
carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James,
and
Joses, and of Jude, and
Simon? and are not his sisters here with us?" (NT

Mark 6.3) [And typical that
the girls are not named!!]

At what point did
the understanding of Joseph of
Nazareth change from being
a (presumed) widower
with at least six children to
whom Our Lady was
step-mother, to being a "pure"
spouse with his children
actually being
interpreted as nephews and
nieces?

I am discounting the
(Protestant ?) theory that the above brood of

half-a-dozen were Mary's
subsequent children.

It is an interesting number
of Joseph's children 4 boys
and at least 2
girls.

("Blessed is he that hath
his quiver full of them." ie
children. (Psalm
127.5)  IIRC the classic
Israelite quiver held six
arrows.)


I know that La Sainte Paternite is a
minefield!! (But I like kicking
a few
mines!)


Brenda M.
Cook
Independent
Scholar


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-----Original Message-----
From: Ms B M Cook <[log in to unmask]>
To: MEDIEVAL-RELIGION <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 23:24
Subject: Re: [M-R] St Joseph, husband of the BVM


medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
culture

-----Original Message-----
From: Gordon Plumb
Sent: Thursday,
March 19, 2015 8:41 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [M-R] St
Joseph, husband of the BVM

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of
medieval religion and culture

19th March was the feast of Joseph, but there
is now also the feast of St
Joseph the Worker on May 1st:

Some random
thoughts -

"Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James,
and
Joses, and of Jude, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us?" (NT

Mark 6.3) [And typical that the girls are not named!!]

At what point did
the understanding of Joseph of Nazareth change from being
a (presumed) widower
with at least six children to whom Our Lady was
step-mother, to being a "pure"
spouse with his children actually being
interpreted as nephews and
nieces?

I am discounting the (Protestant ?) theory that the above brood of

half-a-dozen were Mary's subsequent children.

It is an interesting number
of Joseph's children 4 boys and at least 2
girls.

("Blessed is he that hath
his quiver full of them." ie children. (Psalm
127.5)  IIRC the classic
Israelite quiver held six arrows.)


I know that La Sainte Paternite is a
minefield!! (But I like kicking a few
mines!)


Brenda M. Cook
Independent
Scholar


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