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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Thanks Jim. Yes, there are (or were) quite a few Italian 14thC tombs like that- Henry VII in the apse at Pisa, and Boniface VIII (who incorporated his tomb into a shrine for St. Boniface)- and the tomb I'm considering (Enrico Scrovegni's in Padua) is also in the apse behind the high altar. And yes, passers by were asked to pray for the deceased, as well as priests who were obviously paid to do so. But I'd never imagined them kneeling before the tomb to pray, precisely because it so closely resembles the kind of kneeling in adoration (of the host, or of a saint depicted there) that one might expect at an altar. Kneelers in front of tombs just somehow seems wrong! The arrangements for prayers for the founder and his family at Ewelme are really interesting because, if I recall rightly from Goodall's book, the almsmen had to gather around the tomb for daily prayers, and those prayers consisted of mental prayers (ie they were told to think of the founder and effectively beam positive thoughts at him), rather than formal ones that were read or recited. There's nothing in the statutes that I recall that required them to kneel, but maybe it was just assumed that you kneel when you pray. Since writing my query, I've found a tomb inscription that asks passers-by to kneel *and* to pray, which is suggestive. Still, if anyone knows of any tombs in their original settings with kneelers/prie-dieus I'm still interested to hear of them. all best Laura Dr. Laura Jacobus Senior Lecturer in History of Art Birkbeck College, University of London For details of my book on Giotto and the Arena Chapel see http://www.brepols.net/Pages/ShowProduct.aspx?prod_id=IS-9781905375127-1 On 25 March 2015 at 20:47, James Bugslag <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > Hello Laura, > I don't know whether there might be kneelers there, but the tomb of King > Robert of Anjou in S. Chiara in Naples is certainly placed right behind the > high altar, and forms a sort of de facto altarpiece. Interesting > question. There were certainly many tombs with inscriptions requesting > passers-by to pray for the souls of the deceased. > Cheers, > Jim > > ------------------------------ > *From:* medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious > culture [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Laura Jacobus [ > [log in to unmask]] > *Sent:* March 23, 2015 9:33 AM > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* [M-R] kneelers/prie-dieus in front of tombs or altars > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and > culture > Has anyone come across surviving examples of kneelers placed in front of > tombs during the medieval period? The ones I'm thinking about are described > in an inventory as three 'kneelers, two of stone with columns around'. The > only possible place I can see for them to go is in front of some tombs > behind the altar. One of the tombs is that of the church's founder, and > prayers were certainly said for him, so that would seem to have been their > purpose. I know that at Ewelme prayers were said around the founder's > tomb, but I don't think the arrangements for doing so are made clear and > I'd rather imagined people standing there. I would like to see any > existing examples of kneelers at tombs if anyone is aware of them. Italian > ones would be a bonus. > > all best > > Laura > > Dr. Laura Jacobus > Senior Lecturer in History of Art > Birkbeck College, University of London > > > For details of my book on Giotto and the Arena Chapel see > http://www.brepols.net/Pages/ShowProduct.aspx?prod_id=IS-9781905375127-1 > ********************************************************************** > To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME > to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: > [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: > unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to > report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: > [log in to unmask] For further information, visit > our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion > ********************************************************************** > To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME > to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: > [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: > unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to > report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: > [log in to unmask] For further information, visit > our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion