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>The rmsZ only says something about the deviations from 'ideal' values given their esd. Seems that is exactly what I said ;-) Cheers, BR _____ Van: [log in to unmask] Verzonden: 6-2-2015 17:19 Aan: 'Robbie Joosten' <mailto:[log in to unmask]> ; [log in to unmask] Onderwerp: RE: [ccp4bb] Bin R and Rfree values >please report the bond length and angle rmsZ next to (or instead of) the rmsd in Table 1. ‘Instead’ alone is also not enough – if in a normalized statistic you do not know what you normalized against – that is, the variance or esd of the target distribution – you do not know what Z means. For example, I could override the default set of my target rmsd in Refmac to what I want in order to manipulate the resulting model rmsZ. The absolute rmsd value alone also does not tell you about the underlying target variance. A bond length rmsd of 0.04A would make you cringe but only because you assume you know the unrestrained or true target rmsd of about 0.02A). One reason why the restraint target table in the PDB header is useful. I think both values, rmsd + rmsZ, or rmsd and target variance or esd, are necessary for getting the complete picture. Best, BR