thanxx & bravos martin for hitting the first of my 3 questions squarely on the head with this
& my highest salutes & standing ovations to john for doing all the subtle dissection as well as all the heavy lifting
imo this is a truly stunning exquisitely delicious & long overdue piece of work
& how could i have missed it these 4 long years
hah
glad i asked tho
On Monday, January 12, 2015 2:41 AM, PRATT M.A. <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Dear colleagues,
A sense of déja vu reminded me of the value of the int-boundaries list archives, which can be searched at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/int-boundaries.html. The term 'thalweg' has appeared in 70 messages to the list and 'river' in more than 300 messages. It is also possible to search the archives via Google by prefacing search terms with "site:jiscmail.ac.uk", although the test searches I ran didn't seem to produce as many results as the search tool on the list website.
The online archive dates back to August 1998, so it doesn't quite capture the full history of int-boundaries, which was founded in October 1995. I will do some digging to see if I can unearth some of the original correspondence to mark the list's 20th birthday later this year!
Regarding accretion and avulsion along boundary rivers, I recommend a paper by my former IBRU colleague John Donaldson entitled "Paradox of the Moving Boundary: Legal Heredity of River Accretion and Avulsion", available online at http://www.water-alternatives.org/index.php/alldoc/articles/Vol4/v4issue2/137-a4-2-4/file.
Best wishes,
m a r t i n
> -----Original Message-----
> From: International boundaries discussion list [mailto:INT-
> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Aletheia Kallos
> Sent: 11 January 2015 20:56
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [INT-BOUNDARIES] middle of the main channel (thalweg) - Jones book
>
> great thanxxx maurice ralph dan & all players very interesting
>
> i had read jones many years ago & confess i didnt realize how well his prescriptions have
> stood up over time
>
> as to the question raised or implied by maurice of whether the colorado is indeed
> navigable at the location of the referenced dispute i can attest to having canoed it myself
> at the azcanv tripoint not far above there as well as swum & gulped it when capsized by
> seadooers so no problem there if so little constitutes navigability
>
> but i realize too that the more pertinent question is whether the colorado was navigable
> for practical purposes there at the time when azca was first delimited viz upon california
> statehood in 1850 based on its 1849 constitution setting the boundary at midchannel or
> shortly after the sector of mxus on the colorado just below azca was similarly delimited
> as midchannel flatly so in both cases rather than expressly at the middle of the navigable
> &or main channel
>
> for settling this latter question i was glad to find the following fascinating if rather
> sensational little essay http://the-wanderling.com/river.html
> including an especially interesting 2minute video both in its own right & in relation to the
> dispute illustrating the life of the river across the centuries
>
> & since the matter at hand refers evidently to both various specific historical avulsions &
> continuous accretions & erosion i have to wonder what trumps what in such a case as
> well as whether the will of the usa & 2 or 3 of its states would prevail legally over the will
> of the 4 sovereign colorado river indian tribes http://www.crit-
> nsn.gov/crit_contents/about/
>
> whose referenced reservation dates only from 1865 but whose real standing is actually &
> demonstrably aboriginal
>
> anyway that is the actual point or 2 of why i have brought this matter to all your august
> attentions just to try to be perfectly clear about this
>
> but i would also add at this juncture the following 3rd point in view of the eminently
> sensible titular restatement by dan
>
> since the colorado as both interstate & international border river essentially comprises a
> single channel between 2 banks with very few islands & split channels & even those
> mostly occurring only in times of severe drought upriver i wonder how a midchannel
> delimitation can really equate to a thalweg delimitation in such a case seeing as a natural
> thalweg rarely if ever falls exactly in the middle of its river bed but usually favors heavily
> one bank or the other
>
> & would observe that the resolution of the referenced dispute could ultimately hinge on
> the answer to any or all 3 of these questions
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 5:31 PM, Maurice Mendelson QC
> <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > wrote:
>
>
> Thanks, Dan.. I believe a 2nd ed. or at any rate a reprint was published more
> recently.
>
>
>
> Regards to all,
>
>
>
> Maurice Mendelson, Q.C.
>
>
>
> Blackstone Chambers Barristers
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> 7350 <tel:%2B4420%207822%207350> ; email
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> From: International boundaries discussion list [mailto:INT-
> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> ] On Behalf Of Daniel Dzurek
> Sent: 11 January 2015 22:30
> To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:INT-
> [log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [INT-BOUNDARIES] middle of the main channel (thalweg) - Jones
> book
>
>
>
> The full reference for the book Maurice suggested is
>
> Jones, Stephen B. Boundary-Making: A Handbook for Statesmen, Treaty Editors
> and Boundary Commissioners. Washington: Carnegie Endowment, 1945.
>
> There may have been a subsequent edition by the Department of State. Although
> dated it is one of the best general books about land-boundary making. The term of art for
> this kind of boundary is thalweg (literally "valley way" in German).
>
> I also hope this helps!
> Dan Dzurek
>
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