I agree with you Mark. I know the line that Sean takes on it, and David too to an extent, is the view of a portion of what we might call the intelligencia (there Dave - your one of the inteligencia) but it is not a generally held view by people in general and certainly not the media. Nationalist parties are always a strange mix and I don't think they can be categorised all together but need to be looked at in their own contexts. I don't fully trust Salmond but I don't fully trust anybody else either. In contradiction to Sean I think there are genuine socialist strands within the SNP and cynic though I am I really don't think this is false front - Nicola Sturgeon seems genuine to me. There are, I admit, non-socialist and even anti strands within it but the bulk of Scotland is not behind them. I personally don't want Scotland to go independent because I would much rather be a citizen of a country that included it, for a whole raft of reasons.

The UKIP thing is something else. I loathe them, but at the same time they do reflect the views of many. They have given a stronger voice to a nasty strand of thinking that has always existed in this fair land and made it OK to express thinly veiled racist and thuggy rightist opinions under a dangerously populist banner. Most of all I don't like the way the other parties are pandering to this, particularly Labour. I know that this is a matter of political strategy etc but I still don't like it and don't think it will do any good in the long run. I believe that when faced with vile opinions, especially ones based on scapegoating, you should counter them directly and stop worrying about the tabloids and opinion poles. The media, especially TV, has much to blame for the rise of UKIP - they early on saw Farage as good viewing material and, being the media, that's all they were concerned with. They never miss an opportunity to have him on the screen.

As for your own fair land - well, it's really pleasing when your democracy actually works for once, as with the recent Senate committee report on the CIA - such openness would never happen here. The torture revelations are no surprise of course - we have known for years about this stuff. And as it has always done, everything points to the Brits being complicit - Blair, Straw, DAVID Miliband at the top and countless others down the line all look as guilty as hell but I very much doubt if anything ever comes of it. I doubt too that Rifkind would be so eager to uncover secrets if it had been a Conservative government in power at the time. But there you go. It's never publicly said but we all know that David Miliband would probably be the current leader of the Labour Party if he was not so closely associated with rendition.

Bloody politics. Let's get back to something full of warmth and peaceful thoughts like poetry. 

Cheers and Happy Christmas to all my readers.

Tim
             
On 15 Dec 2014, at 21:37, Mark Weiss wrote:

I spent the month before the referendum and the two weeks after in Glasgow. This is decidedly not what I heard or saw.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Sean Carey <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Dec 15, 2014 10:22 AM 
To: [log in to unmask] 
Subject: The wily Alex 

Salmond assumes a lot and in his timing on the Yes or No vote miscalulated. The SNP is rooted in conservative thinking with their core support among well paid workers who would be happy to lose Labour or socialist thinking. It is their view that poverty is just a scam that they pay for with their taxes. They like the SNP because it rids them of Labour and English liberalism in a split from London. UKIP and the Celtic Nationalists are not and never were socialists. Their roots are in Italian 19th century nationalism. I see no trace of John MacLean in the SNP brand but a lot of Garibaldi.
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