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I spent the month before the referendum and the two weeks after in Glasgow. This is decidedly not what I heard or saw.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Carey <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Dec 15, 2014 10:22 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: The wily Alex

Salmond assumes a lot and in his timing on the Yes or No vote miscalulated. The SNP is rooted in conservative thinking with their core support among well paid workers who would be happy to lose Labour or socialist thinking. It is their view that poverty is just a scam that they pay for with their taxes. They like the SNP because it rids them of Labour and English liberalism in a split from London. UKIP and the Celtic Nationalists are not and never were socialists. Their roots are in Italian 19th century nationalism. I see no trace of John MacLean in the SNP brand but a lot of Garibaldi.

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-----Original Message-----
From: David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>
To: BRITISH-IRISH-POETS <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Mon, Dec 15, 2014 01:01 iiAM
Subject: eRe: A Celtic Rainbow Coalition With Labour


Hi Sean

perhaps I was too elliptical and even curt: what I fear is a right-wing coalition after the next election, with Cameron and Osborne at its heart, and Farage as comic turn. I know some SNP people, even possibly including Alex himself, think they maybe able to force a coalition with Labour, but I really can't see that happening. What I fear, I emphasise that verb, is a devil's pact between UKIP and the Tories, with the blessings of the puppetmasters in Washington. After all, the reality of British political life is our slow, unpleasant and inevitable Americanisation. Unum is lusting after the NHS etc.

best

Dave

On 14 December 2014 at 15:20, Sean Carey <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Is possible David but will the English in their current mood accept that to put Ed Miliband in number 10? The demands for cash from London would merely boost UKIP who could finish the conservatives as we knew them. The odd thing is that the SNP and the Welsh and Irish nationalists are well to the right of Miliband and David Cameron. Many of the Welsh and Irish policies on Europe are similar to UKIP's with the S.N.P. liable to ditch their pro E.U. stance. The position of the neo Unionist Democratic Unionist Party could leave them as the power-brokers next May. To support Miliband would be ok for Sinn Fein who will take their seats but harder for their bedfellows in the D.U.P. 

So all kinds of rainbows could be seen in Westminister of hues not seen in many a generation. The referendum in Scotland instead of defining British history could end up breaking up the Union. But any nationalism cannot be expected to improve the lives of their poor in any nation state. The notion of UKIP that mass deportations will not be resisted is high risk lunacy. Nor can they expect the Asian communities to have laws imposed on them by UKIP or by a 
celtic rainbow backed Labour government. 

These are high risks times David. I hope reason will prevail rather than mass hysteria and indeed the retirement of Dennis Skinner is a sad event. His speech on the morning UKIP's Mark Reckless took his seat is one anyone interested in saving us all from populist nationalism should read in detail. These were the words of a man rooted in genuine internationalist socialism not into seeing those of other creeds or races as the main problem facing both Ireland and Britain. Rather than being the solution Mr Farage is now the most serious security risk to Britain seen since the 1930s.
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-----Original Message-----
From: David Bircumshaw < [log in to unmask]>
To: BRITISH-IRISH-POETS < [log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sun, Dec 14, 2014 04:25 AM
Subject: Re: Douglas Oliver Continued


Sean

The only thing I can say for definite about the next election is that the wonderful Dennis Skinner is standing down. In the shape of things, it should be a Labour landslide, but in the reality, with the lacklustre Ed Milliband at the helm, it ain't gonna be so. I do fear another coalition, thanks to the effects of UKIP and the opportunist Scots Nats. The Labour Party sold its soul to the devil when it opened out to Tony Blair, the road back is a long and possibly unattainable one. I can say, attest even, that I have dealings with my constituency Labour MP on my own and others behalf, and he and his staff have been little short of superb. It is at the national level things go wrong.


Best

Dave

On 13 December 2014 at 13:31, Sean Carey <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
The early death of Douglas left a vacuum leaving us wonder where he would have gone in his work. I like Alice who seems to cross the poetic divides very well. If mention her to poets in the Salmon or Gallery Presses in Ireland they indeed know about her work. That would not apply to many other poets who write in her style.

Some years ago Robert Creeley read in Bewley's Cafe in Dublin's Grafton Street and the poet who introduced him had never heard of him. This despite the fact that the same poet went on to edit and present poetry programmes for radio. So Alice being known is a tribute to her in that context.

Often the mainstream likes to claim poets as English if they are an easy read as well as easy to teach. Indeed that applies in most poetic cultures. In this year of recalling World War One we had poetic groups looking to get their poet labeled as a "war poet" which meant admission to events, etc. But on that list were many easily read writers with others being ignored regardless of their actual war record.

The power of Oliver for me is his grasp of what it means to grow up in England after a dreadful war destroyed so much. That of course means first the loss of lives as well as massive losses of vital services wlthin communities. To see England now go with the UKIP surge is depressing and the contempt for democratic structures. If UKIP hold the balance of power after May next year we are all on the edge of civil unrest. Any left wing party that agrees with UKIP on any issue should ditch that policy at once. A lot is at stake that took generations to build after another fascist surge led us into WW2. The likes of Douglas Oliver would barely recognise the English mood of 2014.




-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask]
To: BRITISH-IRISH-POETS
Sent: Sat, 13 Dec 2014 7:05
Subject: Re: Douglas Oliver Continued 

The first time I read Oliver was Pearl and my reading of him went on from there. 
Of course I agree about the quality of the early stuff but I would make a strong 
case for the later as well - it was the later stuff that I read more thoroughly 
because I was reviewing it in Terrible Work - what about Salvo for Africa - an 
extraordinary work and one that should have got so much more notice and comment. 
I never enjoyed Penniless Politics much but don't really know why - certainly 
not because of the 'politics' - I think I found it a bit flat and too vague or 
something, I must go back to it.

I don't really know what to say about your contention that Alice had a negative 
writing influence on him. Their work still seemed to be very much their own to 
me. I am a huge fan of Alice Notley's poetry and consider her to be one of the 
very best so maybe that colours my view but could you to give a bit of detail 
about that 'influence'  - do you mean subject, style, both, or what? The only 
thing I would say is that I think the general American influence helped to free 
his work up a bit.

Cheers

Tim

On 12 Dec 2014, at 23:34, Sean Carey wrote:

> I would take the view now that "Penniless Politics" was not a total failure 
yet I see it as a project that is a good example of an idea best left as an 
idea. At that stage Douglas was living in America. "Poetry and Narrative In 
Performance" proceeded it and his Paladin masterpiece emerged in 1990. For me 
this is a classic as is "Kind" which takes in his work from 1969 onwards. Wendy 
Mulford published "In the Cave of Suicession" in 1974. This work in its own way 
is built on Oliver heading into an actual cave with a manual typewriter. What 
emerged was a stunning poem I am amazed that is not seen as an epic in a multi 
media sense. Lyrical and surreal and totally buzzing with rhythm. He captures so 
much in this work to a degree rarely seen in poetry. It puts what he achieved in 
"The Harmless Building" on to a new level.
> 
> My point in a nutshell is that Oliver should have continued to explore rather 
than perhaps listen too much to Alice Notley? His work and Notley's on 
reflection prior to "Penniless Politics" were poles apart. She is a big hitter 
in her own field Couples who write can often feel a shadow if either is more 
acclaimed. It is a common problem all through literary history as are 
relationships within poetic groups or circles literary. Often political parties 
are lonely hearts clubs and journalists never stop being journalists. Oliver was 
a working journalist for a lot of his life.
> 
> The later works I feel while impressive never reached the heights of his 
output in the Paladin and in "Kind". I see the shadow of Notley in the two final 
books. A harsh judgement but one based on Oliver's own strengths.
> 
> On a final note I regret Douglas did not value the Paul Buck driven writing 
that was published in Curtains. Given that his own work covered many sexual 
areas I never saw the logic of not recognising the advances made by Paul Buck.
>


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David Joseph Bircumshaw
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