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The word "issue" nowadays is roughly the same in meaning as "stuff." (Oh, yes, I exaggerate, but not by much.) On Monday, November 24, 2014, Lawrence Upton <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Doug > > I apologise for this question. I have to ask but am not trying to make fun. > When you say: > > >I think you're right that some of us (like me) tend to be too > anglo-centric, > thus issuing the modernisms of other languages/cultures. > > > and say "issuing", do you mean "problematising"? > > > I first came across the word "issue" as an alternative to "problem" or > "mistake" etc, a way by corporations it seemed to me of rewriting a > complaint, making it less worrying for them. I am due later to write to > Centrica, who deal in gas of all kinds over here, who have expressed regret > that I have issues when what I said was: they never answer communications! > > If I read you correctly, this is a use of the word where the transition is > complete. BUT for all I know it is commonplace over there. I haven't > crossed the Atlantic in 2 and a half years. > > Really a mere inquiry > > L > > > On 22 November 2014 at 22:07, Douglas Barbour <[log in to unmask] > <javascript:;>> wrote: > > > I take your point(s), Lawrence. > > > > Indeed, it's clear the many rods of 'modernism's Britain were confused & > > confusing (certainly overlapping in many odd ways). > > > > I do think Donald Davie got a lot right in his Under Briggflatts, & that > > his account of the various streams is useful. > > > > I think you're right that some of us (like me) tend to be too > > anglo-centric, thus issuing the modernisms of other languages/cultures. > As > > someone limited to the English language, I only know such work through > > translation, but it still allows for a lot. Yet, because what I learned > > most from are works in english, even there I suspect I red poetry from > > other languages through the english language poetics most important to > me. > > Thus, how I read Celan, for example. > > > > Still, a useful nudge to think more subtly & in context(s)... > > > > Doug > > On Nov 21, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Lawrence Upton <[log in to unmask] > <javascript:;>> > > wrote: > > > > > Walking to my place of work this morning I was thinking of all the > > things I > > > was going to say - and most of it I haven't - in reply > > > One was picking up on the mention of Hardy. & I wanted to aver my high > > > regard for those poems & also a lot of the modernist push... but I > wanted > > > to say that it ain't so simple(resisting the temptation to go all ira > > > gershwin there) & thomas would have been one of my examples... well,the > > > example, but I was sure there were others. I'm not sure about that now. > > But > > > Edward Thomas certainly > > > > > > so ta for that > > > > > > & I was also going to say that it gets muddling once one steps out of > the > > > anglo world & away from Ez or can do unless one does a great deal of > work > > > Work's ok, but there's not always time > > > > > > I have a high regard for Ritsos, but my Greek is nowhere near good > > enough. > > > And my background reading is still undone decades after I stopped > > tramping > > > around Greece. So I have access to a body of work that's just sort of > > there > > > inexplicably in a largely empty room in my head > > > > > > a bit like Syd Barrett sitting there and I'm not quite sure who he is > but > > > he's very familiar > > > > > > * > > > and the oddity of how some of us start and stop with enthusiasms. > > > Somewhere between pre dawn and my first coffee, that crack of > Meliville's > > > about passing a coffin factory went through my mind and I decided that > > next > > > I shall read again Moby Dick > > > > > > that's all I have to say > > > > > > nice w/e all > > > > > > L > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > On 21 November 2014 16:48, Max Richards <[log in to unmask] > <javascript:;>> wrote: > > > > > >> [poem of the day from > > >> Poetry Foundation.org] > > >> > > >> The Thrush > > >> When Winter's ahead, > > >> What can you read in November > > >> That you read in April > > >> When Winter's dead? > > >> > > >> I hear the thrush, and I see > > >> Him alone at the end of the lane > > >> Near the bare poplar's tip, > > >> Singing continuously. > > >> > > >> Is it more that you know > > >> Than that, even as in April, > > >> So in November, > > >> Winter is gone that must go? > > >> > > >> Or is all your lore > > >> Not to call November November, > > >> And April April, > > >> And Winter Winter--no more? > > >> > > >> But I know the months all, > > >> And their sweet names, April, > > >> May and June and October, > > >> As you call and call > > >> > > >> I must remember > > >> What died into April > > >> And consider what will be born > > >> Of a fair November; > > >> > > >> And April I love for what > > >> It was born of, and November > > >> For what it will die in, > > >> What they are and what they are not, > > >> > > >> While you love what is kind, > > >> What you can sing in > > >> And love and forget in > > >> All that's ahead and behind. > > >> > > >> Edward Thomas 1878-1917 > > >> [PF says: > > >> Thomas wrote his first poems in 1914 at the urging of the American > poet > > >> Robert Frost, > > >> with whom he forged a friendship during Frost's years in England. .... > > >> in 1915 he enlisted in the infantry and was killed two years later in > > the > > >> Battle of Arras, > > >> while the first edition of his Poems (1917) was being prepared for > > press.] > > >> > > > > > > > Douglas Barbour > > [log in to unmask] <javascript:;> > > > > Recent publications: (With Sheila E Murphy) Continuations & Continuation > 2 > > (UofAPress). > > Recording Dates (Rubicon Press). > > > > that we are only > > as we find out we are > > > > Charles Olson > > > -- :: from the desk of Halvard Johnson ::