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> On 12 Nov 2014, at 5:35 pm, Don Norman <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > David and I have a different views of the world. I can agree on that. Different world views, different paradigms. But careful reading can limit the range of differences, and incorrect assumptions can also limit that range. I'm not engaging in the who-invented-what-first-game. If I was an historian of ideas or entomologist, I might be tempted but I am neither. Like Don, I'm drawing on my own experience of the various fields as I found them. As you know from psychology and cognitive science, taking out the threat and anxiety from social encounter reduces the possibility of human error. With that in mind here are a few footnotes Don claims: > David says ID (information design) emerged after World War II. What I actually said was: > ID emerges in the decades after WWI through exhibition design and typography MY reasons will be familiar to many information designers. Don Claims: > David writes from the perspective of exhibition design and typography. Not so. I have no qualifications in either. I have some small experience in exhibition and typographic design, but no-one in their right mind would give me a professional job as an exhibition designer and my skills in typography are quite limited. Don says: > I think when David says ergonomics, he only knows about physical ergonomics. Not so. I have no experience in physical ergonomics. Don says: > When David said that designers had already worked out critical modes for > dealing "with this kind of work," i disagree, although this may be because > I don't know what he means by "this kind of work." correct! Don says: > David may want to claim credit for [reducing human error caused by thoughtless design], but all the evidence I know of says it came from human factors and ergonomics. I don't claim the credit for this. Don says > David says "small bits of HCI have been useful," but he might be referring to typography Indeed I might, but if anyone really wanted to know, they would ask me. Don says: > I read David's blog and i find it amusingly silly. Fair comment from the heart, but is this a comment about me or the content of the blog? People are silly, and to be amused by silly people, it not very nice. Don says: > He really does not address what is happening with physical products. Correct! Don says: > He rails against website design (I agree with these critiques) Horray! Don says: > but why does he think this is what HCI is about? it isn't. Most of the bad websites are done by bad amateurs > or even uninformed graphic designers. I cannot find a link to HCI and bad web design in my blog. Then we get to the heart of Don's problem: > He [David] has this weird sentence: > "I was amused to read the other day that Donald Norman—one of the > ‘gurus’—has just discovered people; and that how one describes people > actually matters! http://www.jnd.org/dn.mss/words_matter_talk_ab.html <http://www.jnd.org/dn.mss/words_matter_talk_ab.html> This > is, of course, an important insight, but hardly new." Clearly, Don, you don't like this. If it offends, my apologies. When it comes to the humanistic values underlying this issue, we are probably in furious agreement. As I said in my last post: > Small bits of HCI have been useful, but the effort of wading through the literature to find these bits often outweighs the small benefit. In one of my grumpier moments I wrote a blog about this: We all get these grumpy moments. Mine mentioned something you wrote to the HCI and IX community to whom such a comment would indeed have been new at that time, or at least one of those unreflected usages that needed to be questioned and given more thought. Where I was sitting at that grumpy moment was reflecting on a large pile of published papers that added so little new insights. We have all had that experience. Sorry that you got in the wrong pile at the wrong moment. Warm Regards, David -- blog: http://communication.org.au/blog/ <http://communication.org.au/blog/> web: http://communication.org.au <http://communication.org.au/> Professor David Sless BA MSc FRSA CEO • Communication Research Institute • • helping people communicate with people • Mobile: +61 (0)412 356 795 Phone: +61 (0)3 9005 5903 Skype: davidsless 60 Park Street • Fitzroy North • Melbourne • Australia • 3068 ----------------------------------------------------------------- PhD-Design mailing list <[log in to unmask]> Discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design Subscribe or Unsubscribe at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/phd-design -----------------------------------------------------------------