In response to Ben’s last point about designated assets. I think HERs should have records for these and point to the designation record on the NHLE. The reason for this is are:
· They may have additional information not included in the description (particularly for older designations)
· They should have an entry covering the totality of a site not just the part designated
· There is not a one to one relationship between the asset and the designation. The latter is defining an area for statutory regulation and management. The example I like to quote is the wreckage of the WWII German Bomber on Lundy, it crashed onto an earthwork site, both are included in the same scheduling as they are co-located but they are otherwise unrelated from different periods.
The NRHE has different records for designated items at present for the same reasons.
Martin
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ben Wallace
Sent: 19 November 2014 10:41
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [HERFORUM] E Conference Day 3 - What criteria are essential or desirable? - Maritime
Morning everyone,
Getting back to Rachel's question, yes HERs would effectively need to stop recording Maritime information and hand over the data to the NRHE. However, for this (and the transfer of terrestrial data from the NRHE to HERs) to happen the roles and responsibilities of the NRHE and HERs need to be looked at, debated and agreed by EH (soon to be HE) and ALGAO.
We did discuss this a bit at the workshop and there was the point made that some HERs may not want to stop holding data they have relating to Maritime. In essence though the concept needs to be agreed from both sides otherwise duplication still ensues.
Having said this, from Martin's points regarding defining Maritime areas and responsibilities it looks like it will end up being a fuzzy line in some ways and some duplication may be unavoidable.
Looking at duplication in general this is something we haven't got our heads round properly yet, I mean how many of us have Listed Building, Scheduled Monument or other nationally designated records duplicated in our HER? Do we really need them? Shouldn't we just point to the NHLE?
Ben
Ben Wallace
(Historic Environment Record Manager)
BA (EU) Hons, MA, MIfA
Warwickshire Historic Environment Record
Archaeological Information and Advice (AIA)
Regeneration and Special Projects,
Economic Growth,
Communities
Warwickshire County Council
Phone: 01926 412734
Postal Address: Archaeological Information and Advice, Communities, Warwickshire County Council, PO Box 43, Shire Hall, Warwick CV34 4SX
Physical Address: Archaeological Information and Advice, Communities, Warwickshire County Council, Barrack Street, Warwick CV34 4TH
e-mail: [log in to unmask]
On 19 November 2014 10:08, Newman, Martin <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Maritime is a specific type of record which includes specific fields for recording wrecks. There are maritime sites recorded in the intertidal zone as well as out to the 12nm limit. There are also some maritime records on inland waterways as well as a handful of siles outside 12nm where we have researched information normally because of EH involvement in the site. If the UK ever signs up to the UNESCO Convention on the Protection of Underwater Cultural Heritage we would be obliged to create a record of all wrecks in the English component of UK controlled waters.
Where a boundary of responsibility between the national and local records lies is interesting as different laws and regulations apply differing definitions some using low water and some high. Local Authority planning responsibility ceases at low water, however there are some local exceptions around estuaries, dredged shipping lanes etc. It’s a complex area.
Martin
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nick Boldrini
Sent: 19 November 2014 09:31
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [HERFORUM] E Conference Day 3 - What criteria are essential or desirable? - Maritime
One point raised by a couple of people already is the issue of the Maritime data – which I am re-posting today as it seems more relevant
Specifically
If data is to be transferred from the NRHE to HERs and the NRHE to cease (following HIAS Principle 1), does that mean HERs should remove from their data records that will be held by EH such as the National Maritime Record (following HIAS Principle 2)?
From Rachel Grahame at Tees HER
And also
Can someone define what would be classed as maritime? (We’ve things in Northumberland HER which are offshore as in wrecks, as well as parished terrestrial areas such as some of the Farne Islands are). I guess that this has been thought of for as isn’t Lundy off Devon.
I’ve noticed in the PastScape updates the “Outside of territorial waters” – is this what envisaged for a National Maritime Record?
Or does the sea extend as up as the high tide limit and the land as far down as the low tide limit at the risk of both HER and a National Maritime Record continuing on with the foreshore?
From Keith Elliot at Northumberland HER
Best wishes
Nick Boldrini
Historic Environment Record Officer
Ext 267008
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Graham Tait
Sent: 19 November 2014 08:42
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [MASSMAIL]E Conference Day 3 - What criteria are essential or desirable?
Hi all,
Thinking further about this project, are there some things that need to happen if this takes place?
For example, I would suggest that if this happens English Heritage should stop adding or amending terrestrial NRHE records (otherwise there’d still be duplication of effort!).
Are there any other criteria that need to be considered??
As a starting point, here’s the list of ‘principles’ from the Heritage Information Access Strategy. Which of these are essential criteria? Which are desirable criteria? Which are undesirable or not important criteria? What else needs to happen if this proposal goes ahead?
Principle 1: Local Authority HERs should be the first point of call for and primary trusted source of investigative research data and knowledge
Principle 2: English Heritage should be the first point of call for and primary trusted source of national datasets such as the National Maritime Record
Principle 3: English Heritage should continue to champion the development, maintenance and implementation of standards for the creation, management and storage of digital historic environment data
Principle 4: Investigative research data or knowledge should be readily uploaded, validated and accessed online
Principle 5: The national overview should continue to be delivered online through the Heritage Gateway
Principle 6: Such data or knowledge should not be at risk of loss, fragmentation, inundation (in data), or system obsolescence
Principle 7: English Heritage should, on behalf of the nation, ensure that a security copy of all such data exists in accordance with Principles 3 and 6
Principle 8: Digital data should be supported by material archives in safe repositories accessible to the public.
Best regards,
Graham
--
Graham Tait
Archaeologist
Historic Environment Team
Devon County Council
Lucombe House
County Hall
Exeter
EX2 4QD
Telephone: 01392 382214
Email: [log in to unmask]
Web: http://www.devon.gov.uk/historicenvironment
Twitter: @DevonHistEnv
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