I get that Chris – what I am suggesting might be a middle way (Buddhist archaeology?).
Create the archive (because doing that to some extent is part of the process of doing archaeology properly – creating Harris Matrices, checking context sheets against plans and sections, etc) – but then selectively retain parts of it.
And that issue of how to select what to retain is the one I am sure makes most people uncomfortable, but I also think it’s the most pragmatic approach to some of the issues.
And I also think it just an extension of what we kind of do anyway – we have selected what to record on the plan, we have selected what to record on context sheets, we have selected what parts of a site to investigate, we have selected what to photograph – why not select what to archive?
Best wishes
Nick Boldrini
Historic Environment Record Officer
Ext 267008
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Chris Webster
Sent: 27 November 2014 16:31
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Preservation by record - WAS RE: archiving digital images
(In between writing letters to my MP)
Chris Webster
Somerset Historic Environment Record
Somerset Heritage Centre
Brunel Way
Taunton
TA2 6SF
01823 347434
Online HER at www.somerset.gov.uk/her
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Nick Boldrini
Sent: 27 November 2014 16:13
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Preservation by record - WAS RE: archiving digital images
So that’s you volunteering to write to your MP calling for more expensive archaeology then? : )
Actually there’s a difference between doing archaeology “properly”, and saying that you have to keep everything that comes out of that process for ever.
And how do you know contractors aren’t doing this already – are YOU checking every context sheet, site plan etc?
I’m not suggesting baby and bathwater – get rid of both.
But I am suggesting we have to pragmatically review our model, because its creating issues we can’t continue to ignore.
Best wishes
Nick Boldrini
Historic Environment Record Officer
Ext 267008
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Chris Webster
Sent: 27 November 2014 15:44
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Preservation by record - WAS RE: archiving digital images
Is it Friday already? Anyway this goes back to my previous point – if we don’t think we should keep this forever, we don’t need to waste time filling in context sheets, taking photos, drawing single context plans etc etc. We can go back to the 1950s and make notes on fag packets, write the site up in the pub in the evening on the basis of our memory, only draw plans that will be needed for the publication (and if the site doesn’t fit the theory who will know), and only keep things that are shiny/interesting. There is a reason that we stopped behaving like that…
Chris Webster
Somerset Historic Environment Record
Somerset Heritage Centre
Brunel Way
Taunton
TA2 6SF
01823 347434
Online HER at www.somerset.gov.uk/her
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Nick Boldrini
Sent: 27 November 2014 15:31
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Preservation by record - WAS RE: archiving digital images
So playing Devil’s advocate a bit (Well its better than writing a project proposal for EH…)
Chris is only half right that we don’t have this discussion about physical sites in the same way – because unless they get in the way of development they can safely be largely ignored in terms of active management. The thing is (with notable exceptions) the majority of archaeological sites in the country are not an issue until you dig them up. However, EH did have a program called MPP which did exactly what Chris suggest we don’t do – pick the best examples of sites to be protected.
And regarding archives - I would say the point is exactly IF they will ever be looked at again.
Archives of all sorts are generally agreed to be in crisis because we have as a profession agreed to Preservation by Record and interpreted that to mean “Keep all of everything, for Ever”. That is proving unsustainable due to financial costs, space issues, and the fact that we(archaeologists) apparently assumed Museums etc would welcome all our stuff with open arms, but apparently some, at least, are less than keen to have another ton of broken pot sherds in their collection…
At the same time we are not fostering a professional culture which involves looking at Archives as part of normal business. I’m gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that most academic, professional and amateur work that looks at previous work goes no deeper than the reports, articles and monographs produced - and only very rarely delves into the archives for those sites. And I’ll go further along the limb and say that they’ll only usually delve into an archive when the reports/articles/monographs are poor (eg only interim reports) or non-existent. But I think I’m probably on a fairly sound limb saying that.
So who exactly are we keeping this all for? And I’m afraid theoretical future generations with better techniques is not really a good enough example. We have better techniques/technology than the early twentieth century diggers (hell even middle twentieth century diggers) – and how many of those sites are being revisited? Very few – because most people outside academia are too busy keeping up with the rush to preserve by record, and within academia you gain Kudos examining new sites, not re-visiting old ones. I am sure there are notable exceptions, but that’s what they will be – exceptions.
So I think this discussion is being forced upon us by 20 odd years of a gradual rising tide of the actual practical results of a theoretical decision (Preservation by record), and it might be time to question that basis. Might.
If not, then we need to start dealing realistically with its implications, and we now have plenty of evidence to suggest what that might involve. In a nutshell, making archaeological work a lot more expensive for developers, to cover the true cost of archiving. So whose volunteering to be the first to write to their MP suggesting that?
Best wishes
Nick Boldrini
Historic Environment Record Officer
Ext 267008
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Chris Webster
Sent: 27 November 2014 14:08
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: archiving digital images
I’ll admit that it’s a guess – based on the re-examination of other people’s work once they have died (ie it’s not ‘their’ site any more). A lot of Ralegh Radford’s excavations are being looked at again now (Glastonbury, Tintagel, Whitby etc). It may not hold for the more impersonal nature of contract archaeology.
But again, the point is not when or if someone will ever look at them. If we think that we are ‘preserving by record’, we have to preserve the records. We wouldn’t be having this discussion about preservation in situ (which 10% of Hadrian’s Wall should we keep as typical?).
Chris Webster
Somerset Historic Environment Record
Somerset Heritage Centre
Brunel Way
Taunton
TA2 6SF
01823 347434
Online HER at www.somerset.gov.uk/her
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Nick Boldrini
Sent: 27 November 2014 13:47
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: archiving digital images
Hi Chris
Where did you get the 50 year figure from out of interest? I would have guessed (based on admittedly limited experience) that most of them are never looked at again. Though if that timescale is right in many cases its possibly too early to tell.
Best wishes
Nick Boldrini
Historic Environment Record Officer
Ext 267008
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Chris Webster
Sent: 27 November 2014 13:38
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: archiving digital images
The problem isn’t really storage space (how much is a TB of storage now?) but ensuring that what is stored is findable and usable in the future. Currently archaeological archives tend to be re-examined about 50 years after they were created (this may change if they are accessible). This gives the additional problem of showing that people are using them and that therefore it is worth storing them. We need to be very clear why we are creating and storing them (‘preservation by record’ for all its faults).
Chris Webster
Somerset Historic Environment Record
Somerset Heritage Centre
Brunel Way
Taunton
TA2 6SF
01823 347434
Online HER at www.somerset.gov.uk/her
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Lee McFarlane
Sent: 27 November 2014 13:30
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: archiving digital images
To my mind the issue is that no one (EH/ALGAO/etc) is prepared to stick their neck out and issue national standards and guidance. Yes, all museums are different but until we standardise the approach nothing will ever get done. The contractors will continually bemoan the costs…which shouldn’t be a particular issue as they should be budgeting their contracts accordingly and including archiving costs in the budget to their clients… and the curators will bemoan the fact that archives aren’t being deposited correctly…
Digital archiving should work along same principles of selection applied to objects. Not every last piece of unstrat pot is archived because we all recognise that museums don’t have room – so why not digitally archive a selection of digital photos? If Curators want to check what’s being archived perhaps part of discharging the archiving condition might require the selected phots to be approved first??
There are ways around it, if as a profession, we collectively put our heads together…we could of course just continue with the status quo of sticking our heads in the sand and shrugging our shoulders in Gallic way…
(my rant over I shall go back to my planning…)
Lee
Ms. Lee McFarlane
Senior Archaeology Officer
Archaeology Section
Heritage, Landscape & Design
Regeneration & Economic Development
Durham County Council
County Hall
5th Floor
DURHAM DH1 5UQ
Direct Tel: 03000-267009
General Team Tel: 03000-267013
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Chris Webster
Sent: 27 November 2014 10:26
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: archiving digital images
The real problem is that this is important. If we can’t keep the archive, there was no point in wasting time on site doing any recording in the first place.
And if you ever try to write up an old excavation, you will wish that the excavators had recorded twice as much as they did…
(My archivist colleagues say that there are several sources for photo wallets)
Chris Webster
Somerset Historic Environment Record
Somerset Heritage Centre
Brunel Way
Taunton
TA2 6SF
01823 347434
Online HER at www.somerset.gov.uk/her
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Morrison, Jennifer
Sent: 27 November 2014 10:17
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: archiving digital images
It’s not good that the situation hasn’t changed in a couple of years isn’t it? The problems remain exactly the same.
Jennifer Morrison BA (Hons), MA, MIfA
Tyne and Wear Archaeology Officer
Newcastle City Council
Development Management
5th Floor
Civic Centre
Newcastle upon Tyne
NE1 8QH
Tel: 0191 2116218
Fax: 0191 2114810
Website: www.newcastle.gov.uk/hes
On-line Tyne and Wear Historic Environment Record: www.twsitelines.info
Any statements, views or opinions within this e-mail are those of the author and are informal; they do not prejudice any decision that may be later taken by the Local Planning Authority.
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Chris Wardle
Sent: 26 November 2014 15:54
To: Morrison, Jennifer
Subject: Re: archiving digital images
I seem to recall Chris Webster summed the dilemma up a couple of years back.
-One on hand old fashioned film and the cameras that use it are increasingly difficult to get hold of. But at least museums and County Record Offices at least had an idea of how to store these media (which does not mean that the storage was ideal) and future generations just need an eye to see them.
-On the other hand no-one really knows how to store digital material. I can recall that we were told that CDs ‘would last forever’, but we now know that this is not the case. Even if they do last forever who in 10, 20, 50 or more years will have the equipment to read them. ADAS might say they have the facilities to curate digital files, but at what price, and how do we know whether ADAS will be around for future generations to use.
At the moment I ask that those doing work in Leicester deposit CDs with our museum service. But this is more in hope …
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Newman, Martin
Sent: 26 November 2014 15:13
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: archiving digital images
I can only answer Jennifer’s question directly relating to EH:
“Can contractors deposit their digital image archives with NRHE?”
Firstly the NRHE is not an archive, it is a dataset. What you are referring to is the EH Archive (which will be part of HE after April)
Yes Ben EH is working towards Trusted Digital Repository Status and digital photographs are accepted into the archive. However this is only for the archive of projects commissioned by EH where it has been agreed in advance that the EH Archive will be the final repository.
Martin
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Ben Wallace
Sent: 26 November 2014 14:49
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [HERFORUM] archiving digital images
Jenny,
Briefly, and I will defer to our Planning Archaeologist for the detail, in Warwickshire for photographic survey conditions in planning we still insist on Black and White film to be used with negatives and prints supplied to us. We then validate the results, request the condition be discharged and send the prints and negatives (with any plans, notes etc) to the County Record Office.
No digital images allowed for the very reason that, apart from the ADS, there are few digital repositories out there. I think English Heritage are looking for digital repository status and I have heard of other record offices looking at a similar thing, so the situation may change in the future.
But at the moment if you do a photographic survey in Warwickshire (and Solihull) old school only please!
Where that leaves us in the discussion, no idea, but happy to hear what others think.
Ben
Ben Wallace
(Historic Environment Record Manager)
BA (EU) Hons, MA, MIfA
Warwickshire Historic Environment Record
Archaeological Information and Advice (AIA)
Regeneration and Special Projects,
Economic Growth,
Communities
Warwickshire County Council
Phone: 01926 412734
Postal Address: Archaeological Information and Advice, Communities, Warwickshire County Council, PO Box 43, Shire Hall, Warwick CV34 4SX
Physical Address: Archaeological Information and Advice, Communities, Warwickshire County Council, Barrack Street, Warwick CV34 4TH
e-mail: [log in to unmask]
On 26 November 2014 at 14:23, Morrison, Jennifer <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Dear all – I have a query about digital archiving.
Where do HERs archive digital photos from fieldwork (building recording mostly)?
In Tyne and Wear we’ve been asking for digital photographs instead of b/w prints and colour slide for some years. A set of images is professionally printed for the local archives office and they are also given the digital images saved on CD (although they are not geared up for digital archiving). The HER holds a copy of the images on the council’s secure server (will get full eventually I’m sure) and we hold a copy on CD. In our specifications we flag up ADS for digital archiving but we leave this as optional rather than compulsory.
One of our contractors tried to upload their digital images to ADS. But ADS can only receive 80mb through OASIS and ADS-easy and the archive was much bigger than that. He could have submitted the images on CD but there was going to be a charge of £288 for that (its £40 + VAT for each set of 50 images) – which adds significantly to the price of a piece of developer-funded work, and because you can’t tell how many pictures you are going to take beforehand, it’s hard to anticipate what this cost will be to include in your tender for the work.
The contractor was advised by ADS to only upload selected images or to reduce the file size. If that is done then it is no longer an effective archive. If ADS was to be the primary depository, then it should have the whole archive, not a small selection and the images must be of high quality. English Heritage Digital Imaging Guidelines says set the camera for the largest image size with least compression.
Uploading the images singularly using OASIS takes forever. Each one has to have a data type in the Archive Management section and File-level metadata has to be created for each one. When the archive contains several hundred photos it is a day’s work to upload them.
Until ADS can take more images via OASIS and ADS-easy and until it’s cheaper to upload them (I do understand that ADS has to cover its costs) then I can’t see ADS being the principle depository for developer-funded digital archives in Tyne and Wear, which is a shame.
Can contractors deposit their digital image archives with NRHE?
What do other HERs do with their digital images?
How many DM officers still ask for b/w print and colour slide out of interest?
Our museums are running out space for physical archives as well, but that’s a different discussion…..
I’d welcome your thoughts
Jenny
Jennifer Morrison BA (Hons), MA, MIfA
Tyne and Wear Archaeology Officer
Newcastle City Council
Development Management
5th Floor
Civic Centre
Newcastle upon Tyne
NE1 8QH
Tel: 0191 2116218
Fax: 0191 2114810
Website: www.newcastle.gov.uk/hes
On-line Tyne and Wear Historic Environment Record: www.twsitelines.info
Any statements, views or opinions within this e-mail are those of the author and are informal; they do not prejudice any decision that may be later taken by the Local Planning Authority.
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