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Hi Steve We are lucky enough to be able to physically put ourselves in another room for our cataloguing days which has really helped our ability to focus without distractions. We also took advantage of the resources provided by many lovely cataloguers out there – as mentioned by others on this list and some “here’s how we catalog serials” videos from YouTube. (you’ll notice I’ve left the ‘ue’ out. That’s because these videos tend to be made by librarians in US university libraries) I should add, I wasn’t recommending the course. I was asking if others have been on it and would recommend it as a good introduction to cataloguing in the 21st century. Best, Anastasia From: Stephen Cook [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 25 November 2014 13:06 To: Anastasia Kerameos; [log in to unmask] Subject: RE: [CIG-E-FORUM] Getting started - Session 1 Thank you Anastasia for the tips on both course and book. I also, will need to set aside cataloguing days. Steve. From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Anastasia Kerameos Sent: 25 November 2014 11:40 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] Getting started - Session 1 Good morning When I started working for the BFI - let's just say a while back - I was introduced to the phrase 'Cataloguing is a thing of beauty' and I still believe that to this day. My training came via an undergraduate degree in the days when cataloguing was a compulsory module but all that theory would have been nothing without the practical side of cataloguing. My practical experience was gained via in-house training and was very much linked to in-house standards. I don't think it can be any other way. All libraries are different. Interestingly enough I don't recall us having cataloguing guidelines written down either, but we do now - though to be fair they are linked to the LMS more than to pure cataloguing principles. As far as recruiting goes the posts within our library currently do not specify knowledge of any specific standard, which hopefully enables all those interested and with some cataloguing experience to apply. There are many a time when job specifications ask for knowledge of a specific system or standard and I don't know about others but I feel that might put potential candidates off. A knowledge and some experience of the theory is vital (you need to know you like to catalogue!) but I would expect much of the training to be given in-house. As you can see I am now working with the serials collection and during my MSc in Information Science, which I completed last year, I was truly drawn to linked data (or as I call it cataloguing the www), and then to FRBRoo and inevitably - with the introduction of a new LMS - RDA. We have never used MARC so linked data and cataloguing courses which refer to MARC only caused me confusion. So earlier this year I took the opportunity to establish cataloguing days during which I provided training to my Assistant Librarian (the serials team is a team of two) and re-trained myself! It was the only way. I couldn't see a suitable course out there that was also within our training budget allocation. Has anyone been on Aslib's Metadata: principles and practice<http://aslib.com/training/courses/course.htm?eventid=22> course? Steve, I don't know if you're interested in serials resources but I would definitely recommend this one: RDA and Serials Cataloguing<http://www.facetpublishing.co.uk/title.php?id=9504&category_code=103> by Ed Jones. It's a great book! Anastasia Anastasia Kerameos Librarian (Serials & e-Resources) BFI Reuben Library British Film Institute BFI Southbank, Belvedere Road, South Bank, Waterloo, London SE1 8XT, United Kingdom t +44 (0)20 7815 1447 e [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> w bfi.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of C.J. Carty Sent: 25 November 2014 10:49 To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] Getting started - Session 1 Hello everyone, I used to have responsibility for training cataloguers and agree that it can be a huge investment of time so you need to know the person will have time to spend practising those skills. I got most of my initial cataloguing training during a one-year graduate trainee role, where I spent 50% of my time on cataloguing so the investment in my training was worthwhile and this is a useful model but not everyone has the luxury of a graduate trainee or that amount of time to spend on cataloguing training. Amy - I absolutely sympathise with not having things written all in one place, congratulations on getting it all into Sharepoint! In my experience, cataloguing documentation can often be very piecemeal and all over the place in an organisation, so that you really need to almost know it exists in order to find it. Training people really helps you to notice this kind of problem with documentation. Celine On 2014-11-25 10:40, Amy Staniforth [mws] wrote: > Hello, > > I’m at Aberystwyth and 0.5 of my job is cataloguing and we have one > other 0.5 role. I started in April 2013 and have only just (this week) > finished the first stage of a cataloguing manual and put it on > sharepoint. Nothing about what we do, how or why, was in writing in > one place. > > So, I have been reluctant to take on volunteers although this is often > proposed here as a solution to uncatalogued material. Like Bernadette, > I’d need to know the volunteer was going to stay on after training, > and to be honest, I would rather some members of staff here understood > things like LCSH and the point of RDA. > > The library often has graduate trainees here for the year and in > January I’m hoping to spend some time with this year’s as he has a > strong interest in special collections but he usually only gets a day > at a time with a team so that makes cataloguing training tricky. > > If I manage to get organised before we get our new LMS next year I > would like to ask staff who run our librarianship courses if they or > some postgraduates would be interested to sit in on the process – they > don’t teach cataloguing currently, which I think is a real shame as I > would have loved it! > > Amy > > Dr Amy Staniforth > > Arweinydd Tîm Cadwrfa Sefydliadol a Metadata / > > Institutional Repository and Metadata Team Leader > > Gwasanaethau Gwybodaeth / Information Services > > Llyfrgell Hugh Owen Library > > Prifysgol Aberystwyth University > > Aberystwyth > > SY23 3DZ > > Ffôn/Tel 01970 622085 > > E-bost/E Mail [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > Cadair: http://cadair.aber.ac.uk/ [1] > > _"TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR SUBMISSION TO THE POST-2014 REF, AUTHORS’ FINAL > PEER-REVIEWED MANUSCRIPTS MUST HAVE BEEN DEPOSITED IN AN INSTITUTIONAL > OR SUBJECT REPOSITORY ON ACCEPTANCE FOR PUBLICATION"_ > > HEFCE Policy for open access in the post-2014 Research Excellence > Framework [2] > > FROM: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] ON BEHALF OF > Bernadette O'Reilly > SENT: 25 November 2014 10:26 > TO: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> > SUBJECT: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] Getting started - Session 1 > > I hate to say it, but volunteering is not always a practical answer > for organisations which use international standards such as RDA and > LCSH. The training is a really big investment both for the > organisation and for the cataloguer – I reckon about 100 hours’ > work for the cataloguer. And training is not enough – it takes > practice to get up to speed. We wouldn’t offer training to anyone who > was not committed to putting in a lot of cataloguing hours after > training. > > I wonder whether there are ways in through less-than-full cataloguing? > We have volunteer language specialists who create brief records > (reduced description, no access points or subject headings, records > not exported to OCLC), which requires very little training. > > Does anyone have experience of volunteering (either as volunteer or as > manager)? > > Best wishes, > > Bernadette > > ******************* > Bernadette O'Reilly > Catalogue Support Librarian > > Bodleian Libraries, > Osney One Building > Osney Mead > Oxford OX2 0EW. > > For cataloguing advice: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> For course enquiries > (cataloguing, holdings & items): > [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> > For other correspondence: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > 01865 2-77134 > > ******************* > > FROM: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] ON BEHALF OF > Doyle, Helen > SENT: 25 November 2014 10:10 > TO: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> > SUBJECT: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] Getting started - Session 1 > > I think the first question there is a real problem! If you have no > experience, how can you start applying for cataloguing jobs? > Volunteering is the usual answer, but it’s very hard to do that if you > are already working in a full-time job. > > Are there any managers out there who would consider an applicant who > had no cataloguing experience at all? > > Helen. > > FROM: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] ON BEHALF OF > Bernadette O'Reilly > SENT: 25 November 2014 09:57 > TO: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> > SUBJECT: [CIG-E-FORUM] Getting started - Session 1 > > [Apologies if this crosses with other posts and introductions – there > can be a delay of several minutes before posts appear] > > Hello all, and welcome to the first session of this e-forum! > > In this session, from now until 1.00 p.m., we would like to focus > particularly on recruitment, and we hope to hear not just from people > who are starting but also from people who have experience and advice > to offer. These threads can continue during other sessions – we know > that many people will be able to look in only occasionally – but the > other sessions will introduce other topics. > > My own job includes providing training, documentation and advice for > the 200+ cataloguers in about 100 locations who contribute to the > Oxford Libraries Information System (OLIS), ranging from the Bodleian > Libraries’ full-time cataloguers to multiskilled staff working in > one- or two-person libraries. Many OLIS cataloguers cannot make time > to attend long courses and some do not have much inhouse support, so > it’s a challenge to devise training which is manageable but reasonably > comprehensive – a lot of it has to be through self-tuition modules. If > one of the smaller libraries needs to recruit a cataloguer they may > not have any other cataloguing staff, so I am sometimes asked to help > with recruitment. > > Just to get things started, here are a few questions which occurred to > the moderators. Please jump in with your ideas on them, or any other > questions and/or ideas which occur to you. > > - How can someone with no cataloguing experience acquire enough > knowledge/skills to make a convincing job application? > > - Can anyone suggest books, online resources, courses or other > resources (especially inexpensive ones) which would help someone > hoping to move into cataloguing to make a convincing application? > > - Do most people have experience in other library roles before moving > into cataloguing? > > - What if you were trained in AACR2 and the jobs now seem to specify > RDA? > > - Managers: What knowledge/skills do you look for in applicants? What > else is important? > > - Do you use “objective” tests in recruitment (or have you experienced > objective tests)? If so, can you give examples? Did they help? > > - How important is it for applicants to offer knowledge/skills in a > range of metadata types, e.g. Dublin Core, MODS? > > - How important is it for applicants to offer knowledge/skills with > non-book materials? > > - What can/should organisations do to help employees interested in > cataloguing to acquire relevant skills before applying for cataloguing > roles in that organisation? > > - Is the balance changing between professional cataloguing roles and > paraprofessional roles (e.g. downloading external records, > non-structural checking, editing and upgrading, adding > holdings/items)? If so, is this a good thing? > > - What are the career prospects in non-traditional cataloguing > agencies, e.g. outsourcing firms and e-resource suppliers? > > Looking forward to hearing from you. > > Best wishes, > > Bernadette > > ******************* > Bernadette O'Reilly > Catalogue Support Librarian > > Bodleian Libraries, > Osney One Building > Osney Mead > Oxford OX2 0EW. > > For cataloguing advice: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> For course enquiries > (cataloguing, holdings & items): > [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> > For other correspondence: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > 01865 2-77134 > > ******************* > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email, including any attachments, is > confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended > recipient please notify the sender immediately, and please delete it; > you should not copy it or use it for any purpose or disclose its > contents to any other person. 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