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I think the original force of lyrical will remain elusive as long as we don't really know what went on with the lyre. The key figure is Archilochus, the "first lyric poet" of whose poems only fragments have survived.  The main point seems to be that they were not epic rather than that they were "musical" (epic also was sung) so they were smaller, and they used the first person singular. The idea that they were thereby inferior or subjective is clearly modern, a 19th Century gloss I think (Ruskin used the word in this sense) (I thought the attack on Ruskin in Mr Turner and that other film was a frightful display of student humour at its worst). 

For me lyric/al remains most useful in its sense of musicality, suitable for singing or partaking of sung qualities, song-like and therefore a factor of all poetry, a necessary part of any definition of poetry. To stress it (as, say, Kelvin Corcoran does) is to prioritise the "sound of words" and beauty of line,  as against poetry seen as having primarily a moral function, like Wallace Stevens versus Charles Olson. Whether the "avant-garde" (we seek them here, we seek them there...) is opposed to lyric depends on its attitude to this (unnecessary) conflict. 

PR



On 20 Nov 2014, at 15:50, GILES GOODLAND wrote:

Unrevised OED:
 
Of or pertaining to the lyre; adapted to the lyre, meant to be sung; pertaining to or characteristic of song. Now used as the name for short poems (whether or not intended to be sung), usually divided into stanzas or strophes, and directly expressing the poet's own thoughts and sentiments. Hence, applied to the poet who composes such poems.

From: Carrie Etter <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, 20 November 2014, 10:41
Subject: The avant garde v. the lyrical


Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread--the discussion has been fruitful for my thinking. Mark, the student didn't define lyrical; he treated it as understood, unfortunately. As the student is not my own, I don't have recourse to him for an explanation, either.

Does anyone know or have a viable definition of lyric or lyrical that would be useful for future discussions?

Cheers,
Carrie