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Ah, there’s more than one Antipodean on here! :-) I mostly work on variation in Auslan and BSL rather than English, however. I’m a native Australian English speaker here who I grew up in the working-class western suburbs of Sydney and I can confirm you’d be less like to hear flapping in middle class University of Sydney academics and their children, but I hear it my family. Pronouncing all those words with a flap sounds fine to me, although I’m not sure how much I do it myself. -- Assoc. Prof. Adam Schembri, PhD https://latrobe.academia.edu/AdamSchembri Linguistics program | Department of Languages, Histories and Cultures | Faculty of Humanities and Social Sciences | La Trobe University | Melbourne (Bundoora) | Victoria | 3086 | Australia |Tel : +61 3 9479 2887 | Mob: +61 432 840 744 | Twitter: @AdamCSchembri | Director, Centre for Research on Language Diversity http://www.latrobe.edu.au/crld & Linguistics Discipline Research Program| Sign Language Linguistics Society: http://www.slls.eu<http://www.slls.eu/> | ALLY Network Member supporting GLBTIQ students and staff: www.latrobe.edu.au/equality/ally http://www.latrobe.edu.au/equality/ally From: Gregory R Guy <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> Reply-To: "[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>" <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> Date: Friday, 10 October 2014 7:00 To: "[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>" <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> Subject: Re: dialect variation within families Well, the Oz speakers whom I was friendly with in the 1980s, including the kids and teachers at my son's pre-school, uttered words like water, little, better, with voiceless stops in the middle, often with noticeable aspirated releases. So if flapping is a general characteristic today, there's been a change. Although I can't rule out the possibility that it's socially stratified: I worked at Sydney Uni with academics, and my son went to the Sydney Uni daycare with the children of academics. I note that our resident antipodean variationist, Miriam Meyerhoff, declares it to be variable. Greg On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 1:50 PM, Aaron Dinkin <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: On Thu, 9 Oct 2014, Gregory R Guy wrote: During childhood and adolescence he put on Aussie characteristics (e.g vowels, non-flapping of intervocalic /t/) Wait, Australia has non-flapping of intervocalic /t/? -Aaron J. Dinkin Dr. Whom ######################################################################## The Variationist List - discussion of everything related to variationist sociolinguistics. To send messages to the VAR-L list (subscribers only), write to: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> To unsubscribe from the VAR-L list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=VAR-L&A=1 -- Gregory R. Guy Department of Linguistics New York University "It is only through an analysis of variation that the reality and meaning of a norm can be established at all." -Edward Sapir, 1938 ________________________________ The Variationist List - discussion of everything related to variationist sociolinguistics. To send messages to the VAR-L list (subscribers only), write to: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> To unsubscribe from the VAR-L list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=VAR-L&A=1 ######################################################################## The Variationist List - discussion of everything related to variationist sociolinguistics. To send messages to the VAR-L list (subscribers only), write to: [log in to unmask] To unsubscribe from the VAR-L list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=VAR-L&A=1