JISCMail - OCC-HEALTH Archives

Hi All,

Well I’m on Part 3 through doing an excellent OH course. I would NOT consider the course I did has ‘less appropriate!’ I still continue to work towards more qualifications and certainly would not just be happy with a certificate or diploma. After all we are nurses so should be continuing to improve ourselves shouldn’t we?

Michelle

Sent from Windows Mail

From: Lindsey Hall
Sent: ‎Monday‎, ‎13‎ ‎October‎ ‎2014 ‎07‎:‎34
To: CEOHG

Anne and others

This seems worse than I thought. Firstly, am I right in thinking that there are about 4 groups of OHAs out there?

1 Those who don’t have any qualification at all

2 Those like me who have an 80s/90s OH cert or diploma and never, for whatever reason, continued the upward migration.

3 Those who have a modern OH degree that was not ratified by the NMC

4 Those who have a modern OH degree that was ratified by the NMC and are therefore on Part 3.

Secondly, at risk of starting a riot, am I also right in thinking that that those who have certain NMC ratified courses and who are on Part 3 have achieved this by doing a course less appropriate to OH than many of those who have done other courses more appropriate to OH and which has better prepared them for an OH role and career?

Thanks

Lindsey

From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of [log in to unmask]
Sent: 12 October 2014 18:44
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Part 3 of the register and MSc OH

To my knowledge that MSc qualification does not confer registration with the NMC as it was not approved by them. I have had a few students from that programme who have contacted me to discuss their position re SCPHN registration.

I am sure it is an excellent qualification but a number of crucial requirements are required. This makes curriculum development more complex and some institutions including Birmingham and Cardiff decided not to bother. These are just a few of the requirements:

the course must be under the directorship of an OHN holding registration as a SCPHN – I think it was developed by Dr Denis D’Auria – a physician
the course must incorporate all the SCPHN standards and the team must map how those standards are achieved;
learning must be achieved as follows: 50% in the classroom with 50% achieved in the practice setting with learning supervised by a suitably qualified OHN (very difficult to achieve in the case of some students)
15 days of experience must be achieved as a result of alternative practice
there must be at least one assessment undertaken under examination conditions – the NMC have insisted on this as they are concerned regarding the opportunity for plagiarism.

The teams I have led have had to jump through numerous hoops in order to develop a programme which meets the NMC requirements. I can quite understand why other centres have decided not to do that.

Anne

On 12/10/2014 15:53, "lanyebs" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

it is postgraduate diploma/MSc in occupational health policy and practice which I feel is more appropriate to our area of practice than gaining a qualification in public health. I started the public health last year at Aberdeen however due to university problems I decided to withdraw after the first module. The course was much more focused on community nurses etc than occupational health issues (in my opinion)
Thanks
Lorraine

Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------
From: "[log in to unmask]"
Date:12/10/2014 12:52 (GMT+00:00)
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Part 3 of the register and MSc OH

Are you sure it is the Dip HE you are studying or is it the PG Diploma? Dip HE is taught at L5 which is the equivalent of year 2 of a 3 year degree programme. A PG Dip is offered at L7 – that is the equivalent of M level education – ie post-graduate.

The NMC only validate degree programmes for SCPHN registration, not Dip HE. If you are registered on a L5 programme then I suspect that you won’t be able to register on part 3. To my knowledge Cardiff University offer a PG Diploma/MSc in Occupational Health but I do not think that they currently offer an NMC programme. I would suggest that you clarify your position with your course director. If you check the NMC website you will find which universities are approved for SCPHN registration. It does not mean that they still offer those programmes though.

Best

Anne

On 12/10/2014 12:13, "e-mail lanyebs" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Hi
I have just started an OH dipHe at Cardiff university, I also have 8 years experience in OH. Does that mean, if i register it with the NMC once I qualify i can be on part 3 of the register

Thanks
Lorraine

On 12 October 2014 11:57, [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
In my view the important factor is competence to undertake the role held by the practitioner. Crystal ball gazing – I suspect the days of SCPHN register could well be numbered. The recent death of the “one Institution” with a Faculty of OH Nursing within a broader Faculty of Occupational Health was such a lost opportunity for OHNs. The new National School of Occ Health is likely to have significant influence.

If I were on the interview panel for an OHN post I would be more interested in the competence and appropriate qualifications held by the applicant rather than just SCPHN registration. For example, an applicant who holds an MSc in OH and has kept updated would have credibility. An applicant who had limited practice experience since completing an NMC SCPHN programme several years previously, had required several attempts at the assessments for that qualification and could not demonstrate effective CPD would have significantly less credibility.

I had several discussions re SCPHN registration with the previous Dean of our Faculty. Her argument was that SCPHN registration equates to enhanced public protection. I take a slightly different stance, registration as a nurse provides that public protection and sCPHN registration is not possible without NMC registration as a nurse.

Anne

Anne Harriss
Course Director
LONDON SOUTH BANK UNIVERSITY

On 12/10/2014 11:37, "janet oneill" <[log in to unmask] <http:[log in to unmask]> > wrote:
Hi
I am one of a few who are not bothered about being a specialist practitioner other than perhaps it would be nice to be a practice teacher.
I have seen excellent OHA's who provide a wonderful service but are not on the register and seen specialist practitioners who are really not very good or experienced and in some cases of great concern
Therefore the specialist practitioner status does not actually mean quality in my eyes and I wonder how many other people feel this way?

A colleague is currently doing the degree for SPCHN and told me that it was so similar to the diploma that she was reusing her assignments (not your institution Ann)

I did have a look at a number of employers recently and although a few discounted those without the specialist practitioner status, most undertook competency based interviews.

Therefore a standardised qualification for all would be very helpful in my opinion as I haven't yet found a significant benefit of the SPCHN status

Happy to be proved wrong though!
On 12 Oct 2014 11:12, "[log in to unmask] <http:[log in to unmask]> " <[log in to unmask] <http:[log in to unmask]> > wrote:
Approval of the portfolios was undertaken in a number of institutions. I can think of a small number of practitioners who currently justly deserve to be approved by portfolio. However, generally I have mixed feelings regarding whether I would want to repeat that exercise due to the time and effort involved. We prepared and ran two study days, marked huge portfolios and then supplemented this with a viva. All of this was undertaken on top of our usual job requirements. From memory it was an expensive process for the applicant but we made a loss. The assessment process alone for each candidate took several hours and involved at least three assessors.

The rationale behind the portfolio was to cross check that the learning they had achieved on other post-registration educational programmes equated with the NMC public health standards. On the plus side we approved five excellent candidates who were very well deserving of SCPHN registration. Three had studied programmes at MSc level, two had completed ENB/RCN OHN qualifications but had not recorded their qualification when they had been awarded. All five candidates were very experienced professionals and were employed as senior OHNs. Conversely, we had enquiries from some practitioners who thought that attending a few study days and a conference or two and having been involved in undertaking DSE risk assessments would do the trick.   Some enquirers became verbally aggressive when advised that they were unlikely to be successful as they had not completed any formal OH education at post-registration level.

Anne

Anne Harriss
Course Director
LONDON SOUTH BANK UNIVERSITY

On 12/10/2014 08:01, "Diane Romano-Woodward" <[log in to unmask] <http:[log in to unmask]> <http:[log in to unmask]> > wrote:
I did an M Med Sc (OH) at the University of Birmingham in 1996 which was not validated by the NMC and I went through the process of migration by portfolio in 2009 (and I am glad I did).
However it required the cooperation of another Higher Education institute and the kind service of Bashyr Aziz plus another SCPHN and a viva voce examination of my portfolio and my suitability to be on the 3rd art of the register as a Public Health Nurse. (As I recall this was pleasant but nerve wracking extended lunch, but might have been much more formal)

For the foreseeable future Part 3 is what will be required (although even when I was doing the migrations there were rumours that Part 3 would be disbanded)

I wonder if it would be worth a formal approach to the NMC , via an organisation such as AOHNP to allow another period of migration by portfolio.

Migration would require a lot of work by the individual but also the cooperation and remuneration of those working in higher education for the time they put into reviewing portfolios and doing vivas. they are busy enough as it is.

It would be interesting to know what those who work in Higher Education feel about this?
I suppose the alternative is for these folk to take some to up courses so they can be put forward for Part 3 of the register?

The National School of OH is currently a training vehicle of physicians and I do believer in the long term aims to include joint training etc. But that is a long way off and will probably not not want to involve itself immediately in the validation of historic courses...maybe we , as nurses, have to act in the here and now.

Diane Romano-Woodward
RN RSCPHN-OH BSc   M Med Sc.(Occ Health)
Sunny Blue Sky Limited
Company Number 06865212


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