Dear Julian, Dear Joe,
Thanks to both of you for your comments on the Clino app - much appreciated.
Most of your requests are already on the wish list - we just need to find the time and resources to build these things. Right now the team are focussed on testing the new functionality in Move2015, which is one of the things that keeps a roof over our heads. It makes more sense to put some of the features that you have asked for into our new application ClinoMap. We will be previewing this at the end of the month in Vancouver (GSA Booth 339, from the 19th until the 22nd of October). We will also be giving a short demo at the GSA workshop on digital mapping (Course 519A) on Saturday the 18th of October before the main meeting, and we will be running a digital mapping workshop at the Tectonic Studies Group (TSG) annual meeting in Edinburgh in early January 2015. Hope we might see some of you at one of these events.
Waterproof case - I use a Lifeproof case for my iPhone 5. It leaves the main screen exposed so that it is more sensitive to touch. I think I've mentioned previously that there is a slight bevel to the case where it meets the screen and it can fill up with water, but a quick shake gets rid of the drops. I've not had any problems using the screen in the rain with or without gloves. I've tried an Otterbox and various Aquapacs and they don't work for me.
Best regards
Roddy
Roddy Muir
Managing Director
________________________________
Have you upgraded FieldMove Clino to FieldMove Clino Pro?
For more information: www.mve.com/software/fieldmoveclino<http://www.mve.com/software/fieldmoveclino>
Download from these app stores:
[cid:image001.jpg@01CFE30D.B51424F0]<https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/fieldmove-clino/id647463813?mt=8> [cid:image003.jpg@01CFE30D.B51424F0] <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mve.fieldmove.clino>
Midland Valley Exploration Ltd.
2 West Regent Street
Glasgow G2 1RW
United Kingdom
T: +44 (0) 141 332 2681
F: +44 (0) 141 332 6792
E: [log in to unmask]
W: www.mve.com
[cid:image005.jpg@01CFE30D.B51424F0]
Hi All,
Late to the party here- It's with some chagrin that I admit I didn't know about this listserv (many thanks to Matt Massey for clueing me in). My apologies if any of what I write below has already been discussed in depth on this list more than a few months back.
Great discussion! And I thought I'd throw my hat into the ring and share my experiences over the past several years with digital tech in the field for production geologic mapping & structural data collection:
* Caveats: My experience / philosophy of using digital tech in the field is almost exclusively ruled by what actually saves me time. I don't draw linework / deal with GIS in the field, as that's not the bottleneck in my map production workflow. To be frank, for me, dealing with topology and geodatabases is much better suited to my office or the local cafe when there's snow on the ground. I still map on (custom) paper field bases and use a clean-copy compilation map back in the office, as it only takes a few hours to semi-auto-digitize my linework from those at the end of field season, and after I've had time to think about map problems, analyze structural data, etc... I use my iPhone 4S primarily for note-taking, taking georeferenced photos, and recording measurements and other point data. I still use a field notebook for my sketches, although I've noticed I sketch less since taking digital field notes, which is not good. More details on my particular rig and software I use are below.
* Dictation: Even though my fieldwork is mostly in areas with good cell coverage, I've found it really doesn't work as well as it should on account of the Siri-factor (e.g. "joint sets" becomes, well...). I've found I can type notes one-handed just as quick as I can write at this point, especially if I keep autocorrect off, but I am generation Y, so take that into account.
* Re: FieldMove Clino- I like it a lot and am excited for what it is and where it's going: the interface design is very well thought out. It combines many functions I use across several apps. I may also have squealed, just a little bit, at the in-app plotting of measurements on an equal area net. I think MVE is doing fabulous things. The main reason I do not use it, though, is that, unless I've missed something, it doesn't (yet) have the ability to add additional data attributes to one's measurements, and/or set up one's own database structure. I map almost exclusively in polydeformed rocks and record a lot of fracture data (it's New England), so being able to attribute each measurement with things like relative age, mineralization, width, etc... and relate them to other measurements (e.g. intersection lineation on a particular surface) is critical.
* Using smartphones as transits: There's been great discussion on this and I echo most everyone else's experience- I can't get accurate readings either. Darren Wilkinson has a nice little writeup of a trial he did on this subject (http://wilkinsondarren.wordpress.com/2013/06/24/19-update-should-you-trust-your-digital-compass/) and MVE also has a nice fact sheet on their FieldMoveClino website. The form factor of smartphones and tablets themselves don't make for a great transit, either, as they don't fit in half the nooks and crannies I need to take measurements from.
* Hardware & Cases: After talking with Kyle House, I'm craving a Nexus 7 (cheaper-bigger-faster-lighter-brighter-better-battery)... but most of the apps I use and would like to use are not developed for Android- understandable given the development issues involved.
* My setup & Apps:
* Hardware:
* 32 GB iPhone 4S, typically run in Airplane Mode.
* BadElf Pro Bluetooth GPS
* Mophie Powerstation USB battery (for recharging phone during lunch)
* LifeProof waterproof case (silicone wears out in 6 months, but iPhone survived an hour in a high RPM washing machine in one of these).
* Printed custom paper base on heavy stock and waterproof ink, cut and folded into sections, tucked in my notebook. Pigment liners and colored pencils. :-) I photograph each map section at least once a field day as a backup. More often in bad weather.
* iOS Apps:
* FileMakerGO - I use this for recording notes and structural data using a modified database and layout template I got from Chad Hults (NPS). This app only works if you have a license for FileMaker Pro, which is a pretty fabulous piece of desktop database software. I'm very happy with it. I print out "field sheets" of notes and measurements for each station and put them in a binder, as I get nervous unless I have a stable analog backup of my data.
* Galileo.app - I use this as my GPS interface to record station locations, "short note" stations, etc... This also displays MBTiles of pretty much any map and imagery I want, and does it with little processor overhead. I typically have 1:24K topo sheets, legacy geologic maps, aeromag, orthophotos, and custom bases using hill/slopeshaded LiDAR, surficial/soils, wetlands data, and OpenStreetMap cultural features on there. I assemble these and covert them to MBTiles in TileMill. An alternative app that does much the same is Avenza PDF maps.
* IMetaPhoto - For editing IPTC and EXIF metadata of the photos I take with my iPhone. I add a station number and quick note of what the photograph is of. Echoing Kyle House, I can't emphasize enough the utility of georeferenced photos and using in-file metadata to keyword tag and organize photos, especially in the field. It saves a lot of time and searching if one uses a good photo manager back in the office (I use Lightroom, but others are just as good). There are many apps that do this sort of thing, I just use this one out of familiarity.
* GaiaGPS: I use this, at this point, mainly for recreation, but the pre-loaded data layers are pretty comprehensive and you can cache them on the phone for when you're in areas with no data coverage. It can come in pretty handy.
I'd love to know what setups other people are using on iOS and Android devices, and what people are using in the office, as part of their workflows for geologic mapping and structural analysis.
I also want to plug the Digital Mapping Techniques workshop run by Dave Soller (USGS) every year, in case people might be unaware of it- it's the main place the U.S. state geologic surveys get together and discuss these kinds of issues, and there are several white papers that come out of it every year: http://ngmdb.usgs.gov/Info/dmt/.
Also, thanks Terry, for starting up a website on these things!
Cheers,
Joe
_______________________________
Joseph P. Kopera
Geologist and Senior Research Fellow
Massachusetts Geological Survey
University of Massachusetts, Amherst
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
http://www.geo.umass.edu/stategeologist
_______________________________
From: Tectonics & structural geology discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Julian Mecklenburgh
Sent: 03 October 2014 11:44
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: some other thoughts from the digital mapping discussion
Hi Roddy et al.,
I have recently been testing the fieldmove clino app with a view for using it to teach undergrads. I am very impressed with the app in lots of ways as I feel it is the first digital mapping software that I have found really usable in the field. l was able to collect lots of data in a short time. But I have encountered the following issues.
1. You cannot add younging direction associated with a bedding reading.
2. An indication of accuracy of GPS reading would be good so you can assess when you have a good location. This data appears to be in the data files created.
3. When you rotate map (i.e. so north is not up) symbols stay in same orientation relative to screen so are displayed incorrectly.
4. App sometimes crashes when going from clino to map.
5. It would be good to be able to draw lines by tapping points and connecting them.
6. Would be good to be able to fit a best fit great circle on stereonet not just find average cluster.
7. Be able to have lines and symbols only on map. Map gets cluttered with everything.
I would also be interested what case you used. I was using an otterbox which was good until it rained then the screen would not register my finger as it was confused by the water drops on screen. I have found the same problem when sailing using aquapacs with ipads and iphones. I also found drawing boundaries, faults and axial traces with my finger hard.
Cheers
Julian
On 29/08/2014 11:39, Roddy Muir wrote:
Hi Teri (and Cari),
In response to your comment about the stylus:
I completely understand that many folk are more comfortable using a stylus and you can still use one to draw on your map in FieldMove Clino. However, you can produce some very fine linework in the app with your finger, but you need to make sure that you have loaded your basemaps with the maximum zoom level. Then it's just a matter of panning in close to the area where you want to draw some lines, select your line width (very fine) and then go to work. If you've pre-loaded the basemaps correctly then you can zoom in really far - not something you can do on your paper map.
We have found that the current Windows 8 interface and stylus is very restrictive in terms of being able to introduce the kind of mapping functionality that we would like to use as geoscientists. The Touchscreen tablets open up a whole new range of possibilities which will greatly improve the user experience. Watch this space!
32bit vs 64bit - I'm afraid we will not be producing a 32bit version of the current FieldMove for pc tablets, no matter how loudly you squeak. However, the new Touchscreen application is being developed for 32bit machines so you should be fine.
I think this a very exciting time for digital field mapping. We've been living in a world where we tend to focus on the restrictions that we can see in the hardware and operating systems and many people will not even consider giving up their paper and pencil. The latest Touchscreen devices offer so much more in terms of flexibility and creativity - not just on a 2D map, but in 3D as well.
Better get back to work!
Roddy Muir
Managing Director
________________________________
Have you upgraded FieldMove Clino to FieldMove Clino Pro?
For more information: www.mve.com/software/fieldmoveclino<http://www.mve.com/software/fieldmoveclino>
Download from these app stores:
[cid:image007.jpg@01CFE307.383A3A10]<https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/fieldmove-clino/id647463813?mt=8> [cid:image008.jpg@01CFE307.383A3A10] <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mve.fieldmove.clino>
Midland Valley Exploration Ltd.
2 West Regent Street
Glasgow G2 1RW
United Kingdom
T: +44 (0) 141 332 2681
F: +44 (0) 141 332 6792
E: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
W: www.mve.com<http://www.mve.com>
[cid:image009.jpg@01CFE307.383A3A10]
From: Tectonics & structural geology discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Pavlis, Terry L
Sent: 28 August 2014 16:34
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: some other thoughts from the digital mapping discussion
All you Brits have been busy while we've been sleeping over here across the Atlantic... Lots of interesting comments; I particularly liked the discussion of the precision and accuracy issues on phones. It provides a good explanation of a lot of the issues. I knew of the electronic noise issues with other devices, and had heard discussions that the device produced its own problem. However, it seems odd that one can't compensate for the devices own noise? I now wonder if one of my fundamental problems all along has been Bluetooth based on the comment about wireless? We usually use Bluetooth GPS units (especially on windows 8 tablets that don't support internal gps). They may be our biggest culprit on electronic compasses. My workaround on that, I think I said previously, has been to always keep my field computer away from my electronic compass. Not ideal, but it works.
On a couple other issues discussed:
1. Roddy's comment about a stylus being ancient tech: That is true Roddy, but it is the curse of Steve Jobs for doing field geology. I have never seen a finger as an acceptable digitizer. The fat styli are little improvement. If the stylus really goes away, I think we're dead doing field geology with a field computer. That is why I really like the surface and other windows tablets. Thoughts? maybe I'm ignorant on what tech is in development?
2. Windows 8 tablets-they are wonderful inventions for instruction because, as someone mentioned, they are cheap enough you can just require students to buy them. I too was very disappointed midland valley didn't release a 32bit version of fieldmove to work on these, so I abandoned the idea of using them with my field classes. So we just use QGIS for now (or arcpad). Don't get me wrong, I, like someone else in the threat, really compliment MVE for all the work they have done on Fieldmove and Fieldmove clino for all of us who use these devices outside of industry. Maybe if enough of us squeak MVE will knuckle under to some of these requests?
Btw-I have not seen major performance issues with Fieldmove 2013 as long as you keep your project down to a reasonable size. Only load images you need, etc. One issue could be the processor version you are using. I have not had performance issues on our brand new Atom based machines, but I had an older tablet with an atom processor that was terrible with fieldmove (and almost any other application for that matter). Anyone else have experience here?
3. Here in the states a few of us were at an Earthcube workshop/fieldtrip a few weeks ago that had a focus on field data acquisition. We had a long discussion about the idea of using voice recognition for data entry to solve these compass issues and another issue that I found long ago-entering rock type information into a set of fixed field. I found this amazingly annoying and quickly abandoned the idea, even though it seems like a good idea in principal I found I did not have the patience to look though giant pulldown menus to enter information like rock type! So that is an application that would be wonderful for voice recognition. The computer folks at that workshop mentioned siri and an android equivalent. However, over here in North America we all rejected that idea because many areas we work lack cell service or, at the least, lack a decent wireless internet connection. Apparently there are some reasonable voice recognition systems that don't require that internet interface, and some people are looking into that. anyone have thoughts on this?
4. Last, since I started part of this discussion by announcing my little digital mapping website (http://www.geo.utep.edu/pub/pavlis/digitalmappingwebpages/) There is a little commentary on that site about the 3 applications we use for digital mapping (one of them is Move and Fieldmove). One note on this thread also mentioned the BGS's mapping system using Arc, and that is also discussed a bit on that site. Bottom line, there are a lot of options out there now, and people should just pick an option they like best. Fieldmove has a workflow invented by geologists that is very natural, and that is its great advantage, but you have to weigh other issues with that in deciding what to use. Bottom line-it is a new day, and as Roddy said on one of his notes, we're bound to have some hickups along the way with the technology (like the compass issue) but it sure beats paper!!!!!
Terry Pavlis
--
Julian Mecklenburgh
Lecturer in Structural Geology
School of Earth, Atmospheric and Environmental Sciences
Williamson Building
The University of Manchester
Oxford Road
Manchester
M13 9PL
U.K.
Tel: +44 161 275 3821
+44 161 275 3945
Fax: +44 161 275 3947
email: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Web: http://www.seaes.manchester.ac.uk/people/staff/profile/?ea=Julian.Mecklenburgh
