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Thanks for replying Wouter
I am surprised to be regarded as part of an "overbearing tendency to question people if stepping out of the box." I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask for evidence about your claim. Especially on an email list such as this! We should always be asking for evidence.
My job doesn't depend on what people do regarding vaccination by the way.
I suspect that you weren't directing that accusation at me, but were generally accusing public health profession at large of neglecting this issue. I have to say that approach (accusing a profession of neglect, saying that people don't care about children) doesn't do your argument any favours in the eyes of a neutral.
You seem to be saying that in your clinical experience there may be a link between vaccines and NCDs. You also have some theoretical papers that you think support this proposition (even though they don't mention vaccines) and that has set off some alarm bells for you. Is that an unfair assessment?
I did read the link you posted by the way. My first impression was that you were citing yourself rather a lot, and that set off some alarm bells of my own. The other articles are mostly theoretical papers that don't address vaccine safety. So I don't see any evidence there to support your proposition.
Please forgive my scepticism but I feel that we have seen already too many examples of the harm from unsubstantiated theories.
cheers
Douglas
On 06/10/2014 21:39, Wouter Havinga wrote:
To actually answer your question "where is your evidence", did you take time to read my link of 2012 and did you read it with interest or did you scanned it through to check if it sounded acceptable - rather than be stimulated to help think about whether vaccines are causing the endemic increase in NCD. This is important because I believe it not an academic exercise but the most pressing humanitarian research topic of our time.http://www.bmj.com/content/344/bmj.e3769/rr/593438Hi Amy and Douglas,
As a GP I am expected to vaccinate every child. Public health needs to provide the reassurance that on balance their children (the people that I am expected to safeguard) after vaccination are not more at risk to develop asthma, eczema, hayfever, inflammatory bowel disease, autoimmune diseases, ADHD, depression or pervasive developmental disorders.
A better question is what evidence does public health have to prove to the parents and me as GP, that taking an acute infectious disease and life long NCDs the mort/morb balance is favourable - in view of the endemic increase of all of those NCDs mentioned above?
I do not want to compare myself with Semmelweis but I worked in a practice where the population was less keen on vaccination and parents opted to vaccinate only at one year old and with fewer vaccinations. What I observed was that there are less NCDs in the children in this population.
Furthermore I work in the OOH (Out of Hours service) of the area that also covers this practice. Hardly any patients of this practice contact the OOH. I hardly every see any needing a nebuliser.
If I was public health I would jump on this and do research! As a Public Health specialist I would take pride in keeping the population healthy, and do any kind of research to do my job for society properly. Unfortunately, just like in Semmelweis's time, there seems to be an overbearing tendency to question people if stepping out of the box: "where is your evidence" and subsequently don't interact because they want to keep their job. The health of children seems less important? To me it seem that this area of research (NCD/vaccination) doesn't feature on any conferences of public health, WHO, Unicef or GaviAlliance.
It is unthinkable not to discuss possible side effects when it concerns adults, take statins, HRT, COC, but when it concerns children nobody seems to care?
Of course I am emotionally involved because I handle the needle and syringe, so therefore I value your scientific input and look forward to both your thoughts!
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Douglas Badenoch
Director, Minervation Ltd
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