I'm cvertainly aware of the pervasiveness of mysogyny. And I didn't accuse you of aggressiveness--that was someone else. Besides, aggressiveness usually isn't a sin. And my comments about lists weren't if I remember them properly directed at or blaming any demographic.
 It's commonplace for women on facebook to comment to each other that "all men are like that," whatever the that happens to be. Sometimes, depending on context, it's nasty, often just playful But there have also been in the wake of recent horrific revelations calls for blacklists, and even an attempt to get Kenyon Review to remove from its website a story by Kirk Nesset. It got me to read the story--I'd never heard of him before the FBI indicted him. It was ok, a retelling of a fairy tale. Nothing I'd go out of my way to look for. Some saw in it a hidden child molesting fantasy, but I couldn't find it--let's say it would have been a stretch, and more than that if not fueled by the recent news. Any demur on the part of a man somehow became excusing the buying and sharing of child rape photos.

There's no excuse, in my mind, for bullying people into silence, not even that men have been doing it t women forever. And for me, having lived through a few, the suggestion of a blacklist raises the hairs on the back of my neck.  That's what I was referring to.

I think all the social media, lists and facebook certainly, become at times a venue for simple venting of rage. Please, I don't mean that complaints by women about the way men behave fall into that category. That venting sometimes includes things most of us wouldn't want in print and would think better of, and I suspect the blacklist calls were of this order. But it all becomes part of the record.

Best,

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Alison Croggon
Sent: Oct 8, 2014 4:48 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: On my return here

Thanks all. Mark, I really don't know why you think that women think that sexism is ok in different contexts but I can assure you that it's not true of the women I know on Facebook. There are women who say they are anti-feminism. Women, like men, are not all the same. Perhaps you're not aware how routine misogyny is, or of the very serious harrassment that happens to almost every woman who talks online about feminism - or indeed any number of proscribed topics considered proper only to men - and how disgusting that has become, how the intention is literally to ruin lives and careers through organised harrassment. This list is by no means as vile as that, but we're all talking in contexts, and there's a continuum. As for my "aggression", that may be so, although I don't remember indulging in ad hominem argument. But I'm wondering if it's a case of "he's got strong opinions, she's a bitch."

Three women have attempted to say that the conversation here feels alienating to women (and younger poets, by the way) which is why they mostly don't post here, and the reaction is basically that are it isn't. Right. It musn't be then. There must be other reasons why women and younger poets don't post here. It certainly doesn't seem to be a matter for concern. I'm aware that not everyone is saying that, I'm aware there have even been interesting conversations here and there. Anyway, I'm going to search the bowels of the internet and find out how to unsubscribe. I'm not angry, just tired of it.

All the best to everyone

xA

On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 6:47 AM, David Latane <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

"in the way people so helpfully did by posting the first things they found on Google, scholarly sources all, to explain why me, Alice, Alison and Jimmy were wrong" (Rachel)

 
I posted without any comment an internet definition (an accurate one with regard to usage) only because I was interested in the expression, not to "explain" why anyone was wrong.

It would be nice if there were an equally colorful expression with the same meaning, or a non-sexist synonym for prostitution in the broadest sense.

David Latane

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Alison Croggon
ABC Arts Online Performance Critic
Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com