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Tom, Cultural issues are always in the eye of the beholder. I'm going out on a limb here, taking a punt ... the densely populated island that you live on that's in the Atlantic... doesn't pitching it in terms of the Atlantic exclude the North Sea, the Irish Sea, the Channel, the Solent, the Hebrides, all bodies of water crucial to the culture, history and identity of the UK? Of course, I could be reading it wrong, and you could be in the gulf stream region of the Scilles ... My understanding of Jen's original point was the old conundrum of push versus pull technology. It sounds like Jen (apologies for putting words in your mouth) has requirements for a forum that is more discussion group based (or similar) with people being able to 'follow' items of interest, search posts etc. And, perhaps, an area for the posting and sharing of resources. That is, pull technology with notifications supplying a bit of 'push'. The listserv is seen as a barrier, because (it is assumed) people are stuck in their ways and reluctant to change. The benefits seen by people who use the listserv are dismissed (almost out of hand). If I have a query, I would prefer to shoot it across the listserv, to get as many live responses. I don't want to rely on others who have the time scanning a discussion forum-type area. I also appreciate the ability to do some 'environment-scanning' - being aware of what's happening by the emails that fly past. The issue of Peter's emails was one that was always going to creep in, from the moment the first email was signed off with 'frankly, the emails are out of control'. Or words to that effect. I disagree. I think they're managable. Now Tom is moving on to quality of content, with a dash of politics and culture. I'll hold up my hand and say I've a laissez faire approach. If it's something I want to read, I will. If not, I delete it. I hadn't noticed any political tone, or been aware of etiquette around it. But, that could be cultural. I grew up in the same country as Graeme, and even crossed paths with him in a sub basement in a previous life. (Hundreds and hundreds of records boxes stored directly beneath the city's storm water drains). It could be the thinner ozone layer that we were both exposed to that has clouded our judgement and made us obsessive about rectifying records storage and relaxed about professional forums. Either way Graeme, I dare you to start a row about the continuum. Make it really interesting and rope Mary in. Daphne ------------------------------ From: Tom Chan Sent: 30/09/2014 09:53 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! - An international Perspective Graeme I am not unsympathetic to the issues that you raise. I live and work on a small densely populated island in the Atlantic. There are quite a few places to get training to keep your skills up to date but even here there are some places that are either geographically or culturally isolated. However Peter Kurilecz for the most part just posts rubbish. I used to be a PeterK supporter a few years back but these days he just posts largely useless promotional pieces for the library of somewhere or other which is launching something or other. He puts zero care or curation into his posts. While we are discussing 'an international perspective' it is worth mentioning that Peter is an American. There is nothing wrong with that, a fair few of my relatives are American. I visit America every quarter. I am not in any way anti-American but [log in to unmask] is a British based list. Some of Peter’s posts are culturally tone deaf, for example he posts pro-Israel slanted news stories which is probably fine in America but is quite divisive and contentious in the UK. Tom ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 01:03:01 +0000 From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! - An international Perspective To: [log in to unmask] I work as an Information Specialist in Tauranga, a provincial city in the North Island of New Zealand. Professional development for information management in New Zealand is (mostly) limited to two main centres, Wellington and Auckland. *IM Professional Development in New Zealand* It is a seven hour drive (one hour flight) to Wellington, heart of governmental recordkeeping, and a three hour drive (a 40 minute flight) from Auckland the heart of commercial recordkeeping, in New Zealand. Invariably, any IM conferences, seminars, workshops, etc, are in either of these two locations. This is improving with more events in provincial centres, but mostly they are not easy to get to, and the bean counters don’t like paying for airfares or accommodation. We do have the NZ Records list server, but the Information and Records Management Society mailing list brings in a wider range of information, especially from Peter Kurilecz, some of which I pass on to the NZ records list server. Sometimes it has items about local information management issues that are not on the local mailing list. Occasionally, I’ll post something from New Zealand to the IRMS mailing list, or to Peter, when I think it will be of international interest. *Mailing list vs Online portal or Work space* I don’t want fancy, complicated access to information if a simple option is readily available. I can quickly read the mailing list email subject lines and delete ones I don’t want to read. Embedded links make it easy to access and read online items and If I want to save a link, I can click and drag the email into a Reference folder in our EDRMS, or forward it to NZ Records. As we say over here, the IRMS mailing list is sweet, bro ! *Graeme Thompson* | MLIS | Records Management Specialist Tauranga City Council | 07 577 7200 | Internal ext. 7623 | Mobile 021-032-7550 | [log in to unmask] | www.tauranga.govt.nz *From:* The Information and Records Management Society mailing list [mailto: [log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *Jen Parker *Sent:* Saturday, 27 September 2014 3:53 a.m. *To:* [log in to unmask] *Subject:* Re: The RM listserv, still?! Exactly. Let us find the gumption to retire the listserv once and for all. I think the administrators simply owe it to people, especially those entering the profession, to do things better and move things forwards. Jen On 26 September 2014 16:36, Nicholas Cooper < [log in to unmask]> wrote: Arguably IRMSpace never got going because of the RM Listserv. One was active whilst the other struggled to gain traction. It was proposed that the Listserv be retired to allow the IRMSpace to flourish (or rather force migration to the more modern platform). This was not allowed to happen so IRMSpace never gained widespread adoption. Arguably, again, while Listserv remains other initiative will most likely suffer the same fate. Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange ------------------------------ *From: *Meic Pierce Owen <[log in to unmask]> *Sender: *The Information and Records Management Society mailing list < [log in to unmask]> *Date: *Fri, 26 Sep 2014 15:00:35 +0000 *To: *<[log in to unmask]> *ReplyTo: *Meic Pierce Owen <[log in to unmask]> *Subject: *Re: The RM listserv, still?! I personally have a lot of empathy with what you say Jen yet when we at IRMS ran a live Facebook equivalent site, Irmspace, it simply did not bubble. Meic *From:* Jen Parker [mailto:[log in to unmask]] *Sent:* 26 September 2014 15:58 *To:* Meic Pierce Owen *Cc:* [log in to unmask] *Subject:* Re: The RM listserv, still?! "There are indeed many ways we *could* be having these discussions (from a technological perspective) yet we appear to be, within the context of our busy work lives, most comfortable with that which requires least effort." Yes. Embarrassing, isn't it. Shameful, even. 'We' (not me) prefer to just let it drip in, and look busy deleting the things. A blog wd certainly suit those who otherwise use the listserv to reach their captive audience. I don't think it's "time" that stops these other platforms being successful. (especially given how much time is lost reading and deleting emails!). Look at how much time (most) ppl spend talkign to ppl on Facebook. They need to be smarter, more responsive, more intuitive (wow, it feels like i'm talking about DM software all over again). A good collaboration platform (amongst other things) lets you start and have conversations in real time (just like Facebook does) and keeps you switched on to all the content that you want (e.g following conversations etc). Then one cd actively opt in or out of those umpteen training adverts, course reminders and retention queries; which wd be formatted in such a way as to make them really helpful. (cos you tag them, and then search for them again, just like you use tags in Twitter). Email filters incidentally are not a decent solution to good content curation! they are the best-that-we-can-do-right-now. Ppl do log in when they know that it's dynamic and current, and they will pay for subscription if the service works for them, and give them quality curated professional content. Advertsing cd surely fund it? New people entering this profession all the time, they must surely laugh at how we're running the show. Sorry, but it makes me despair. Jen On 26 September 2014 08:55, Meic Pierce Owen <[log in to unmask]> wrote: Jen Interesting post and a very fair point. However, in defence of ‘the listserve’ what we, and other organisations have found, is that it is not that easy to sustain activity on any platform that requires individuals to make a conscious decision to go there. We at IRMS found that with our irmspace professional discussion and networking site and other sibling organisations have found the same. Indeed, groups using the UK public sector Knowledge Hub have also found the same. The ‘problem’ seems to be that whilst these platforms do well initially, most of us simply do not have the time to routinely log-on to additional platforms whilst the listserve approach sits quite happily within our already up and running email. That is not to say that these platforms are not worth re-visiting. IRMS launched a discussion forum a year ago now and this has proven very valuable as a platform for internal discussions. It has not, however, proven popular with the profession. We are looking at reviewing the reasons for this with a view to making any functionality changes that might help uptake and then relaunching the platform thereafter. So, whilst I agree with you, I think what we are currently seeing is something rather interesting. There are indeed many ways we *could* be having these discussions (from a technological perspective) yet we appear to be, within the context of our busy work lives, most comfortable with that which requires least effort. Regards Meic Meic Pierce Owen IRMS Chair *From:* The Information and Records Management Society mailing list [mailto: [log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *Jen Parker *Sent:* 25 September 2014 18:29 *To:* [log in to unmask] *Subject:* The RM listserv, still?! Does anyone else see the irony in Records Managers using the RM listserv, still - in 2014? With its sheer inability to filter the content, or preserve the really good stuff posted here - for posterity. It beggars belief, non? So much better software we must have to pick from. There are so many better ways to present and preserve this content, and manage our respective wheat to chaff ratios. The emails are frankly out of control. Us , of all people... Jen Parker RM practitioner, of sorts. (I think it's really time I just opted to unsubscribe..) To view the list archives go to: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the words UNSUBSCRIBE RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK For any technical queries re JISC please email [log in to unmask] For any content based queries, please email [log in to unmask] Securing the future... - Improving services - Enhancing quality of life - Making best use of public resources. The information in this email is solely for the intended recipients. 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