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Hi Don, Bringing offlist to onlist as you have already done. You said it, ‘the unconscious is a state’. A 'state' is a theory construct not real. You can make up any other theory that might acceptably represent what happens. Consciousness is an ability, also a theory construct. Same issue. As a test, tease out the differences between consciousness and awareness. All of this is differentiating between the map and the territory. Calling something 'the unconscious' is drawing a sketch of what you perceive of something, it isn't the thing itself nor does there have to be a thing at all that correlates to idea 'the unconscious'. Last week at Ken’s request, I sent him a few dozen Sanskrit terms and concepts that, from some Indian perspectives, cover the same territory as conscious/unconscious in a different kind of detail and complexity than western psychology. The perspective on the same issues is humancentred yet not centred on self-perception and ego-centred (which is your position). It assumes self-perception is somewhat superficial and often deluded, and likewise much of the awareness from it. The fact that there are different conceptualisations of the same thing (Western and Indian) indicates they are in the theory realm rather than being in the physical. I.e they are different maps of the same territory. I follow Patanjali on this, and I wouldn't have regarded his work as behaviourist. As for whether I exist and who I am; I have to answer like Chuang Tzu, 'I don't know' (and at least he didn't get asked about the source of emails) Same issue. It's way too easy to get too obsessed by sense of self - and it leads to some messy creativity theories, including concretising the conscious and unconscious. Best wishes, Terry --- Dr Terence Love PhD(UWA), BA(Hons) Engin. PGCEd, FDRS, AMIMechE, MISI Director, Love Services Pty Ltd PO Box 226, Quinns Rocks Western Australia 6030 Tel: +61 (0)4 3497 5848 Fax:+61 (0)8 9305 7629 [log in to unmask] -- -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Don Norman Sent: Tuesday, 30 September 2014 12:47 PM To: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design Subject: Re: Researching user's unconscious Excellent answer. Thank you. We should have a more private discussion about research methods for your dissertation. (Next time I am at SCAD?) And yeah, this is a public response, but I thought the discussion group should know that my overly cute remark about Priscila's research was promptly put down with her appropriate response. She isn't probing the unconscious by a survey: she is probing what people do about it. And for that, a survey is fine. Maybe all this is irrelevant anyway, for Terry just informed me that the unconscious is a myth, a theoretical entity that does not exist. Why? I suspect because we can't see it. I responded that the unconscious, like consciousness, is not a thing that can be seen: it is a state of mental processing. When people act or make decisions of which they are unaware, that is by definition being done unconsciously. Consciousness implies awareness. (Come to think of it, perhaps Terry is a theoretical entity, a mythical creature. After all, he can't be seen. Maybe those emails come from some sentient computer up there in the clouds pretending to be Terry. Has anyone actually seen Terry? (I have seen someone who claimed to be Terry, but I have no evidence that this is the same "thing" that authors those emails.) don On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 5:27 PM, Priscila Mendoza < [log in to unmask]> wrote: > The survey is not intended to probe unconscious knowledge. The > objective for this survey is to get a sense about current design > research practices when it comes to unarticulated and latent > knowledge. That said, I totally agree that If my intention were to > probe the unconscious knowledge of researchers a survey would have been a contradiction. > Don Norman Director, DesignLab, UC San Diego: Think Observe Make Prof. Emeritus Cognitive Science & Psychology, UCSD [log in to unmask] www.jnd.org <http://www.jnd.org/> http://designlab.ucsd.edu/ (Finally, a website I am not ashamed of) ----------------------------------------------------------------- PhD-Design mailing list <[log in to unmask]> Discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design Subscribe or Unsubscribe at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/phd-design ----------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------- PhD-Design mailing list <[log in to unmask]> Discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design Subscribe or Unsubscribe at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/phd-design -----------------------------------------------------------------