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It seems as if the people who wrote those (costly, and not so nice) guidelines did not declare their conflicts of interest. Is it possible that some of those people are paid by others who would benefit from so many additional cystatin assays being performed?

 
Best regards, Joseph Watine, Villefranche-de-Rouergue, France
 

Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 11:15:43 +0100
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: NICE and CKD
To: [log in to unmask]

Dear Ed

Just out of interest, I did a count of the projected Cystatin workload

Our population is 375,000

Last financial year we did 34,853 microalbumin/ creatinine ratios for primary care

12,316 had a ratio of <3.0 and a GFR of 45-59 which put them in the NICE  Cystatin group G3A1

Ballpark figure for Cystatin C running on Roche Modular £16

So that’s £16*12316 = £197056

Ouch !!!, not so nice

 

BW John

 

 

From: Clinical biochemistry discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lamb Edmund (EAST KENT HOSPITALS UNIVERSITY NHS FOUNDATION TRUST)
Sent: 30 July 2014 13:36
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: NICE and CKD

 

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This message was sent from an email address external to NHSmail but gives the appearance of being from an NHSmail (@nhs.net) address. The recipient should verify the sender and content before acting upon information contained within. 
 
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Dear Mailbase

 

The NICE updated guideline on CKD was published last week and there have been several responses posted. I am pleased the guideline has generated some debate and it is inevitable that new recommendations will take some working through. As a member of the NICE CKD guideline development group, I would like address some of these points:

 

1.            The recommendation “Consider using eGFRcystatinC for people with CKD G3aA1” is to improve risk stratification and provide reassurances to individuals at very low risk (i.e. those who are G3aA1 [GFRcreatinine 45-59 with no albuminuria] and whose eGFRcystatin is found to be >=60. (See e.g. Peralta CA, et al. Detection of chronic kidney disease with creatinine, cystatin C, and urine albumin-to-creatinine ratio and association with progression to end-stage renal disease and mortality. JAMA 2011;305(15):1545-52. Shlipak MG, et al. Cystatin C versus creatinine in determining risk based on kidney function. N Engl J Med 2013;369(10):932-43. Waheed S, et al. Combined association of albuminuria and cystatin C-based estimated GFR with mortality, coronary heart disease, and heart failure outcomes: the Atherosclerosis Risk in Communities (ARIC) Study. Am J Kidney Dis 2012;60(2):207-16. Foster MC, et al. Novel filtration markers as predictors of all-cause and cardiovascular mortality in US adults. Am J Kidney Dis 2013;62(1):42-51.) It is not primarily included as a measure to improve accuracy of GFR estimation (see e.g. arguments in Rule AD, Glassock RJ. GFR estimating equations: getting closer to the truth? Clin J Am Soc Nephrol 2013;8(8):1414-20).

 

2.            The GDG would not have considered the recently published CAPA GFR equation (Grubb et al, Clinical Chemistry 2014) as this was outwith the search time window used during guideline development. However, as stated above the suggested use of cystatin C is around risk evaluation and the evidence for risk stratification using the CAPA cystatin C equation does not presently exist to my knowledge.

 

3.            Regarding standardisation [“…significant issues with standardization of cystatin C assays (which I am sure bypassed NICE completely!)]”: the guideline recommends the use of a cystatin C assay calibrated to the international standard. Of course differences exist between methods, although the Grubb et al paper actually shows quite good agreement between most commercial assays. It is our job as laboratory professionals to ensure we use appropriately standardised assays and, through quality assurance, to ensure ongoing maintenance and traceability of the data we produce.

 

4.            The uncertainty issue (“…ability to distinguish GFR 44 or 45 etc”) is no different to many other diagnostic threshold arguments in laboratory medicine. I note Dr Bosomworth’s sensible comments in this regard (posted 30th July) and re-iterate that a CKD diagnosis should never be based upon a single test result.

 

5.            It is an obvious truth that GFR estimating equations make assumptions about the relationship between age, gender and muscle mass (“…bird like old ladies with extremely low BMI’s and muscle mass…etc”). But the alternative – use of a serum creatinine reference range against which data should be interpreted – is in my opinion more flawed.

 

6.            The benefits of routine use of estimated GFR (“Is there any evidence yet of improved outcomes from routine reporting of eGFR?”) have been discussed (e.g. see review Levin A, Stevens PE. Early detection of CKD: the benefits, limitations and effects on prognosis. Nat Rev Nephrol 2011;7(8):446-57.)

 

 

Dr Edmund Lamb PhD FRCPath

Consultant Clinical Scientist (Biochemistry) and Head of Clinical Biochemistry,

East Kent Hospitals University NHS Foundation Trust,

Kent and Canterbury Hospital,

Ethelbert Road, Canterbury,

Kent CT1 3NG, UK

Tel: (44) 01227 864112 (direct)

Tel: (44) 01227-766877 extn 74736

Fax: (44) 01227-783077

E-mail: [log in to unmask]

 

eGFR-C Study Chief Investigator: eGFR-C Study

 

 

Editor-in-Chief, Annals of Clinical Biochemistry,

journal http://acb.sagepub.com/

submissions http://mc.manuscriptcentral.com/acb

 

 

From: Clinical biochemistry discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jonathan Kay
Sent: 25 July 2014 11:57
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: CKD

 

Is there any evidence yet of improved outcomes from routine reporting of eGFR? I repeatedly asked the ACB for this after their statement but I haven't seen any.

 

Jonathan

 

 

On 25 Jul 2014, at 11:34, OConnor John (ROYAL DEVON AND EXETER NHS FOUNDATION TRUST) <[log in to unmask]> wrote:



Good point David

I have endless discussions with GP’s around bird like old ladies with extremely low BMI’s and muscle mass in whom the eGFR is fairly useless as an indicator of renal function.

John

 

From: Clinical biochemistry discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David James
Sent: 25 July 2014 11:21
To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: CKD

 

Just to put the cat among the pigeons – what is the uncertainty of measurement caused by the fact that it is assumed that all people of the same age and gender have the same muscle mass J

 

dj

 

From: Clinical biochemistry discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jonathan Middle
Sent: 25 July 2014 11:19
To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: CKD

 

Hi

I looked at the Table in the link John sent and was interested in the eGFR values used in the stratification of CKD.

 

Is anyone concerned about whether the uncertainty requirements for eGFR estimation that would enable laboratories accurately and reliably to discriminate between values of, say, 44 & 45 mL/min/1.73m^2, can be achieved?

These two articles may be informative!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3689324/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24839297

Cheers

Jonathan

 

On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 8:58 AM, OConnor John (ROYAL DEVON AND EXETER NHS FOUNDATION TRUST) <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

New NICE CKD guidance issued yesterday

 

Did anyone notice this !

“Consider using eGFRcystatinC for people with CKD G3aA1 “

BW

John


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