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The issues may well be, but personal slights of the kind we've seen the past few days have no place on any professional mailing list. By all means people can debate the issues, but they should leave individuals out of it. From: Steve Powell [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 23 July 2014 10:09 To: David McMenemy; [log in to unmask] Subject: RE: From the CILIP Old Guard?? These issues are surely relevant to both lists? Steve From: Library and Information Professionals [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David McMenemy Sent: 23 July 2014 09:58 To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: From the CILIP Old Guard?? The post Helen is replying to was made to LIS-PUB-LIBS, not LIS-PROFESSION. Please do not respond to that particular post on *this* list. Thank you From: Library and Information Professionals [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Helen Renson Sent: 23 July 2014 01:03 To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: From the CILIP Old Guard?? I have kept out of the discussions until now but after Liz McGettigan's post I can no longer stay silent. Forget 'old guard' and think of people who have our professional organisation and the membership at heart. I used to hold my professional organisation in awe when 33 years ago I set out on a profession I had wanted to be involved in since the age of seven. Now I am on the point of resigning because I no longer have any respect for it. Liz says people who have been in the profession a long time have a fear of change. Many of us are not afraid of change. The use of the Internet was a fundamental change with different working practices which all fields of librarianship and information services had to accept. In fact those who went through that innovation, I think make better practitioners of the profession - look to Phil Bradley. However our professional body has lost touch with what is going on in the 'real world'. The dumbing down of the qualifications - and I do not remember having been asked my views or to vote on that - has meant that employers no longer require Chartership as a required qualification for a job in several fields of librarianship, the biggest being public libraries. OK I am a public librarian but I have been a school librarian ( Oh my God that was a bad experience - the Head Teacher had no concept of what the LRC could do for her school and when I tried to tell her I was made redundant) and a University Librarian. All these are under attack from government imposed budget cuts How Liz can comment on something when she admits to not having read the details which (unlike Phil with his enormous posts on Jisc - bless you Phil) are on a blog and does not read Frances's posts on Jisc which do give an indication of what is going on in the real world - now I have used that twice -will there now be posts headed 'Real World'? - I don't see how she is able to comment. Maybe if she still worked in public libraries she would understand what is going on. Cilip is not in a 'good place' and if she thinks it is then she is really not in the 'real world' - there third time! Consultation where and how. I am secretary of the Cilip in Sussex sub-region of the SE Members Network (phew that's a mouthful - thanks Cilip). I have found it extremely difficult to know what is going on. I also have to admit to being the wife of Tom Roper, ex-trustee, but of course he couldn't tell me anything because discussions were held in confidence! I am posting this on the Jiscmail lists in the hope that it strikes a chord with others who may have better luck in bringing Cilip back to the organisation it once was. Sorry it is very long. Helen Renson Lifelong Cilip member and Chartered Librarian (for what its worth) PS I am rather disappointed in the other two people I voted for who won in the last election to council. In my opinion they have not stood by their election manifesto - but, as I say, that is only my opinion. ________________________________ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 12:48:22 +0100 From: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: From the CILIP Old Guard?? To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Gosh I truly thought I'd misread this and got it the wrong way round? Surely Tom and Frances are the "Old Guard" or at least that has always been my perception? However I do totally understand that a fear of change can be difficult after a certain age and perhaps it is easier to stay in the limelight by causing another little drama ? I don't read Tom's blog and automatically delete Frances's moans and groans and I have refrained from saying anything until now. I find Tom's total arrogance this time personally offensive, the fact that the very highly qualified, experienced and professional board's unanimous agreement after a major consultation didn't suit one man meant that he had to throw his toys out of the pram once again. CILIP is now in a better shape than ever thanks to Annie and her team and the support and direction of the board. The trustees are all very highly professional and from a wide range of professional backgrounds. I certainly don't consider myself or my fellow trustees as "old Guard" in fact quite the opposite. I would urge all of you who were consulted and can see the real sense of direction now being achieved by CILIP to stand up to those who like to hear their own voices and don't listen to others. Liz McGettigan BA MCILIP ACMI FRSA Trustee of CILIP Director of Digital . On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 3:47 PM, Mike Hosking <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: I don't often join in on these exchanges, however as I am perhaps one of these "old guard" CILIP Trustees being mistakingly being referred to or thought of as such I thought I should respond with a few facts! Firstly this is my first spell on CILIP Council, and I have now been a Trustee for 30 months, so I hardly think I have been around very long, indeed I still have a lot to learn about CILIP the staff, services and our partners. Secondly there is an accusation that too many CILIP Councillors are no longer employed. In my case this is certainly true, however I was elected - yes elected on that basis, have said so in my manifesto. I felt privileged to be one of 4 Councillors elected from the 6 (or perhaps 7) that stood that year. I believe I am the only retired person to be elected to Council in recent years. Interestingly I would not have stood for Council if I were not retired, in the demanding job I was in, managing Libraries, Adult Learning and Community Services I most certainly could not have put the time in I felt such a position required. Having become Hon. Treasurer this year has brought this into even more perspective, as I have already spent 20 days away from home on CILIP business, ignoring time spent reading, mailing and getting frustrated by ill informed comment. I would also refute the charge of being out of touch with the profession, I now feel much better informed and have a much wider perspective on the profession as a whole than when I was relatively confined to the narrow world of public libraries. So I really don't know who this old guard at CILIP is, a ghost of the past perhaps?? It is however interesting to reflect that there is indeed an old guard creating a lot of comment who keep saying they want CILIP to change but don't like any of the change when it is proposed. As I am taking the time and effort to write, I will also comment on the factual position regarding the Governance review and perhaps this will also enable those who are making ill informed comment to acknowledge the real position. * The proposals were thoroughly researched by a Working Group lead by the then President, Phil Bradley, and including external experts such as the Head of Governance at The British Library * The research looked widely at best modern governance practice amongst membership bodies especially those who are also charities like CILIP. * They have been subject to long and detailed debate at Council for over a year, starting in July 2013. Even before that Council received regular updates on progress from the working group over a period of a year, and the research had started before I joined Council. * Following the initial decision to go forward at Council the proposals have been subject to extensive consultation with members, not only in written form via UPDATE etc., but also through visits to member interest groups etc. More than 25 of these visits took place and in ALL but 2 cases the member groups were very supportive of the overall direction.The detailed feedback from all of the consultations has been published and was used by Council to fine-tune the proposals, which will be going forward to the AGM. Council on the 8th July agreed these proposals with 11 votes for an 1 against. * The decision to propose changes to the governance structure is driven by the need to ensure CILIP is governed and managed by Trustees who have the experience and skill to take responsibility for a £4.7m business, and who can deal effectively with crisis as and when they occur rather than set unbalanced deficit budgets and put off essential action. as as unfortunately happened in the past. In my real experience, having established 2 Charities (which are still operating), been on the Boards of 3 others and been an FE College Governor, leaving it entirely to chance that candidates come forward with the essential skills and experience needed to run a charity is foolhardy! Mike Hosking CILIP Hon Treasurer. ________________________________ The following message has been applied automatically, to promote news and information from Nottinghamshire County Council about events and services: FREE medieval family fun at the 30th Anniversary Robin Hood Festival, 4-10 August at Sherwood Forest Country Park. www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/robinhood<http://www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/robinhood> ________________________________ ________________________________ Emails and any attachments from Nottinghamshire County Council are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by replying to the email, and then delete it without making copies or using it in any other way. Senders and recipients of email should be aware that, under the Data Protection Act 1998 and the Freedom of Information Act 2000, the contents may have to be disclosed in response to a request. 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