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The relation of Apollonius Rhodius' Talos to Spenser's Talus is treated, somewhat glancingly, in AFQ 413-14, re rock-throwing (at overseas invaders in the Argonautica), metallurgy (and terminal bleeding), and fatal Medean charms, but "animate hardware" is probably not as troll-like as modern-day zombies. Merely offhand, the most troll-like character in Spenser seems to me to be the monster of filthy Lust in FQ IV vii-viii, but, as said, that's just an unexamined guess. There's an interesting passage on trolls in Sir James Frazer, Golden Bough 3rd edn. vol. 10 (Part One of Baldur the Beautiful), pp. 172-73, where a seasonal connection can be made between trolls, seasonal limits, and Shakespeare's Puck (see also Milton's lubber-fiend in L'Allegro 101-114). (In Frazer the Scandinavian troll called, in the latter day, Luther, is also of some interest, though maybe not to a Protestant poet or mythography....) The Tick-Tock man reappears in Harlan Elison, "'Repent, Harlequin!' Said the Ticktockman" (_Transformations: Understanding World History Through Science Fiction_, ed. Daniel Roselle [i973], pp. 161-76; and the thematic relation of Book V to (the potential tyranny of) timekeeping, punctuality, synchronization, regularity, mechanization, etc. -- "the relation of justice to time" -- is treated, mainly, in AFQ 402-05 and 407-09. But an incubus (a figurative one, such as anxiety about debt or the wages of sin) is not necessarily a troll -- Wagner's abused and aggrieved Alberich, however, clearly is. -- Jim N. On Fri, 20 Jun 2014 17:43:48 +0000 Lauren Silberman <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > In The Argonautica of Apollonius there is a bronze man >named Talus. A youthful Medea makes short work of him. > L. Frank Baum has a mechanical, "clockwork" man called >the Tik-Tock in one of his many sequels to The Wizard of >Oz. He may well have had Spenser's Talus at least partly >in mind. There is a rather Radigund-like figure in The >Marvelous Land of Oz, named Jinjur. I published an >article about it a number of years ago in Studies in >Popular Culture (with some cool drawings by John Neill). > It is sad to think how familiar Spenser was to popular >authors of a century ago. > > Lauren > > -----Original Message----- >From: Sidney-Spenser Discussion List >[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of James >C. Nohrnberg > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 1:07 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Are there trolls in the FQ? > > "The three Billy Goats Gruff seem to be missing...": > but see _Analogy of The FQ_, p. 772, on the alleged >demonization of allegorical agents: > > A telling example in Spenser is Talus, who stands for >"marital law," but acts like a medieval suit of armor >that has been possessed by a demon. The figure belongs >to gothic romance, though one may also compare the robots >of science fiction, or the character known as the >Incredible Hulk, who is found in the current [ca. 1965?] >Superman comic books. Another example from the same >legend in Spenser is Pollente. Pollente stands for >"power," and he monopolizes a river-crossing; his is >specifically the power localized in that juncture of the >romance topography that we have elsewhere described by >means of words like _threshold_ and _impasse_, and the >associated concept of trespass. We might compare the >limitary river-god Scamander in the _Iliad_, since the >hero wrestles with him in the water; but Pollente and >sons of Guizor are equally kin of the folktale >bridge-troll in the story of Bill Goat Gruff. Like the >bridge-troll, Pollente is a threshold-demon. > > See, in the Prose Edda's Skaldskaparmal, Old Norse vorth >nafjarthar, "guardian of the [corpse?]-fiord," as an >epithet or term for a troll, as provided by a >self-describing one. > > -- Jim N. > > On Fri, 20 Jun 2014 10:47:00 +0100 > Penny McCarthy <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> The three Billy Goats Gruff also seem to be missing - >>but there is >>Grill. Penny On 20 Jun 2014, at 08:24, Roger Kuin wrote: >> >>> It's pleasing to see that the "Irregardless" school of >>>criticism is >>>alive and well. It reminds me of Brigid Brophy and "Fifty >>>Works of >>>English Literature We Can Do Without". Bite-size stanza >>>nuggets about >>>people and the sincerity of their feelings: das ist unser >>>Spenser! >>> >>> >>> On 20 June 2014 00:04, Quitslund, Beth >>><[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>> I hope I'm not breaking a tacit consensus decision by >>>the list to >>>ignore this, but if not then it seemed worth knowing that >>>The Faerie >>>Queene is suffering what may well be a form of academic >>>trolling in >>>the Chronicle of Higher Education this week. Allan >>>Metcalf, originally >>>an Anglo-Saxonist but now a dialectician, is writing a >>>series of blog >>>posts about the poem which offer all of us some advice >>>about editing >>>and teaching it. >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Beth >>> >>> >>> >>> P.S. In a possibly related note, there may be no trolls >>>in the FQ, >>>but it is in (sort of) the movie "Troll." >>> >>> >>> >>> OHIO UNIVERSITY >>> Department of English >>> >>> >>> >>> Beth Quitslund >>> Associate Professor & Faculty Senate Chair >>> >>> Ellis 381 >>> 1 Ohio University >>> Athens OH 45701-2979 >>> T: 740.593.2829 >>> F: 740.593.2832 >>> [log in to unmask] >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > [log in to unmask] > James Nohrnberg > Dept. of English, Bryan Hall 219 > Univ. of Virginia > P.O Box 400121 > Charlottesville, VA 22904-4121 [log in to unmask] James Nohrnberg Dept. of English, Bryan Hall 219 Univ. of Virginia P.O Box 400121 Charlottesville, VA 22904-4121