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Thankyou Lyndsey for your advice and support. All the replies have been very helpful. I was feeling deflated but now I am going to fight really hard . if I
lose then as you all say do I really want to work for them anymore. I have applied to two agencies and hope something comes from that
regards
Karen
Occ Health Advisor
RGN OHND
Paradigm Precision Burnley
1 Bentley Wood Way
Network 65 Business Park
Hapton, Burnley
Lancashire UK
BB11 5TG
Direct Dial +44 (0) 1282 47 8722
[log in to unmask]
Paradigm Precision – Burnley is a trading name of Unison Engine Components Ltd
Registered Number 5137829 England
VAT Reg No GB 174 2910 09
All quotations, estimates, orders or acknowledgements of orders are subject to the Company's standard Terms and Conditions, copies of which are available on request.
This e-mail is confidential and is intended for the exclusive attention of the addressee(s) indicated. Any opinions or advice given are not necessarily those of the company from which the e-mail was sent. If you are not the intended recipient, this e-mail should
not be read or disclosed to any other person. Please notify the sender immediately and delete this e-mail from your computer system. Although this e-mail has been checked for viruses and other defects, no responsibility can be accepted for any loss or damage
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From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Lindsey Hall
Sent: 03 June 2014 20:54
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] previous query
Hi Karen
For my two penneth, this thread is clearly about 2 issues – Role and Money. Regarding your role, I agree with previous comments that the OHA role
has evolved hugely in the last few years and most of us, particularly the self-employed are doing many things that OHPs would have done 10 or 20 years ago. You may therefore be coming up against a provider who is shrugging their shoulders and thinking that
most of their staff do what you are doing and in the current world of OH, that is just how it is.
Regarding money, it is difficult to be objective without knowing what you have actually been paid and I fully understand that you would not want
to share that on an open forum such as this. However, we can’t judge whether you have been paid exceptionally well for the past few years – enough to make the rest of us a bit envious and for a new provider to find it impossible to match your daily rate based
on the price at which they have won the business – or whether you are genuinely being screwed out of a reasonable wage. I have a view about salaries and wages which is this:
1)
Employed Salary – mostly seems to be in the £34 – 40k range based on the adverts I see. 40k is actually £177 per working day based on 226 working days per year.
2)
Agency rate – you are often at the bottom of the pecking order here in that the client is paying a provider, who is paying an agency who is paying you. There
are a lot of middle persons all taking their cut which reflects your hourly rate although a full day’s pay is usually somewhere over the above employed rate. This reflects the lack of employed terms and conditions and job security.
3)
Subcontract rate – higher still when you are being paid directly by a provider with no agency middleman
4)
Full self-employed consultancy rate/fee. This is the biggest amount as you are being paid directly by the client, the business is yours, which you have gone
out and won and if the client complains or it all goes wrong, you have to deal with it.
I have not discussed numbers re 2 – 4 for commercial and trading standards reasons but a quick trawl through the various agencies internet sites
will give you a good idea of what the going rates are for agency and employed staff. Some of these roles will be straightforward case management but others will be quite broad and demand a lot.
To reiterate my earlier comment on this thread and that of others, I am almost certain that in the eyes of HMRC, you will be an employee if this
is your only place of work. Not sure how that transfers into legal employment rights though. If you want to discuss it further, I would be happy to have a chat with you by phone if you want to give me a ring.
Thanks
Lindsey
From:
[log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Huyton, Karen (GE Aviation, Non-GE)
Sent: 03 June 2014 12:13
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] previous query
Thankyou Wendy
I really appreciate your reply. I think you are spot on when you say that we do take a lot more on. Then it becomes the norm and expected when really is out
of the remit just for Occ Health advisor role. I don’t get holiday, or sick pay. I have an accountant and pay him to sort tax and NI.
Over the 15 years I have had to go with four sales of the business, reduced hours, increased hours, extra work. I have just got on with it. Done extra training
developed new skills. But never in this world did I ever expect this huge pay cut and still be expected to carry on, Especially when they cut my hours as well from last October. So putting the two together if they put this in place I will be doing the same
job for 49 percent of the wage I earned a year ago!. I really can’t see a way forward with the business.
Karen
Occ Health Advisor
RGN OHND
Paradigm Precision Burnley
1 Bentley Wood Way
Network 65 Business Park
Hapton, Burnley
Lancashire UK
BB11 5TG
Direct Dial +44 (0) 1282 47 8722
[log in to unmask]
Paradigm Precision – Burnley is a trading name of Unison Engine Components Ltd
Registered Number 5137829 England
VAT Reg No GB 174 2910 09
All quotations, estimates, orders or acknowledgements of orders are subject to the Company's standard Terms and Conditions, copies of which are available on request.
This e-mail is confidential and is intended for the exclusive attention of the addressee(s) indicated. Any opinions or advice given are not necessarily those of the company from which the e-mail was sent. If you are not the intended recipient, this e-mail should
not be read or disclosed to any other person. Please notify the sender immediately and delete this e-mail from your computer system. Although this e-mail has been checked for viruses and other defects, no responsibility can be accepted for any loss or damage
from its receipt or use.
From:
[log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Susan Morley
Sent: 03 June 2014 11:58
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] previous query
Hi Karen
I have followed your dilemma with interest.
There are a lot of us that work without the support of an OHP especially the self employed amongst us. Nowadays its just part of what we do if we feel competent
to do so.The OHA role has changed so much over the years and because of degree training we take on a lot more responsibility than we used to. Unfortunately as always in nursing the salary rarely reflects our worth to an organisation and often then don't fully
appreciate the responsibility we have to shoulder.
Prior to being self employed I earned, if I was honest, a fairly inflated salary thanks to the organisations pay scale structure (non NHS) . My successor who
had run a far larger OH department than me, started on a much lower salary and had to assume all of the responsibility I had had.
However to propose a 32% pay cut seems harsh in the extreme.
Do you get paid annual leave, sick pay, training allowances, pay your own Tax and NI and the employers contribution, all that has to be taken into account
being self employed. You have to weigh up whether you would be able to earn the same being self employed out of that organisation.
The OH mags and agency's regularly advertise OH posts so you would be able to get some sort of feel for the current OH market. Maybe that's where they have
come up with a figure for an OH salary failing to realise you have the employers overheads to take into account.
I wish you luck with your battle, however I get the feeling you will have to compromise or move on. Harsh I know.
Life isn't fair.( Dr Steven Peters. The Chimp Paradox. 2012) Fantastic read!!
Sue
From: "Huyton, Karen (GE Aviation, Non-GE)" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 8:46 AM
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] previous query
Hiya Wendy
I will still be self-employed.. I do the Occ health advisor role without any support form an OHP. This is the reason why they have
always paid me a higher hourly rate. Since he left the business I have covered his role with a very occasional external referal .
regards
Karen
Occ Health Advisor
RGN OHND
Paradigm Precision Burnley
1 Bentley Wood Way
Network 65 Business Park
Hapton, Burnley
Lancashire UK
BB11 5TG
Direct Dial +44 (0) 1282 47 8722
[log in to unmask]
Paradigm Precision – Burnley is a trading name of Unison Engine Components Ltd
Registered Number 5137829 England
VAT Reg No GB 174 2910 09
All quotations, estimates, orders or acknowledgements of orders are subject to the Company's standard Terms and Conditions, copies of
which are available on request.
This e-mail is confidential and is intended for the exclusive attention of the addressee(s) indicated. Any opinions or advice given are not necessarily those of the company from which the e-mail was sent. If you are not the intended recipient, this e-mail should
not be read or disclosed to any other person. Please notify the sender immediately and delete this e-mail from your computer system. Although this e-mail has been checked for viruses and other defects, no responsibility can be accepted for any loss or damage
from its receipt or use.
From:
[log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Wendy
Sent: 02 June 2014 21:37
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] previous query
Hi Karen
Could I just clarify, with the proposed role / rate, will you be employed or still self employed?
Kind regards
Wendy
Wendy Stimson-Ladd RGN SCPHN (OH)
Director
AWL Occupational Health Ltd
Occupational Health, Workplace Mediation and Coaching
Tel: 01293 532477
Mob: 07814 288642
Website: http://www.awloh.co.uk/
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=77137393&trk=tab_pro
Based in West Sussex
AWL Occupational Health Ltd is a Company registered in England and Wales.
Registered number: 7380521 Registered office: The Apex, 2 Sheriffs Orchard, Coventry. CV1 3PP
Please be advised that all e-mail communication relevant to assisting in the management of the OH process will be entered into the individual's OH file.
This may therefore be disclosed to the client under the Data Protection Act (1998)
On 2 Jun 2014, at 19:13, Karen Coomer <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Hi Karen
I don’t think I have anything to add from when I replied last time, I think the main point was to check your legal position as you may be seen (legally) as an employee rather than a contractor if you have worked there 15 years.
I attach a link with some information and contacts which you may find useful http://www.cab.org.nz/vat/eb/ea/Pages/IndependentContractors.aspx
Best regards
Karen
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Huyton, Karen (GE Aviation, Non-GE)
Sent: 02 June 2014 17:28
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] previous query
Sorry to jump in mid conversation again. I am still needing help . I am still having a major debate with my employer. I say that I do work outside of my Occ health advisor remit and therefore should be able to keep my current hourly rate. The proposed decrease is 32 percent. I will not be able to sustain a pay cut this large. Also they will not let me join the onsite union as I am a contractor and therefore self-employed. Neither will they allow the RCN on site. I have worked here for 15 years and have never been asked to take a pay cut. We have recently been bought by another business who have already cut my hours.
Have any of you got a job description of your Occ Health Role. Also with this role would you have the back up and support of an OHP or not
regards
Karen L Huyton
Occ Health Advisor
RGN OHND
Paradigm Precision Burnley
1 Bentley Wood Way
Network 65 Business Park
Hapton, Burnley
Lancashire UK
BB11 5TGDirect Dial +44 (0) 1282 47 8722
[log in to unmask]
Paradigm Precision – Burnley is a trading name of Unison Engine Components Ltd
Registered Number 5137829 England
VAT Reg No GB 174 2910 09
All quotations, estimates, orders or acknowledgements of orders are subject to the Company's standard Terms and Conditions, copies of which are available on request.
This e-mail is confidential and is intended for the exclusive attention of the addressee(s) indicated. Any opinions or advice given are not necessarily those of the company from which the e-mail was sent. If you are not the intended recipient, this e-mail should not be read or disclosed to any other person. Please notify the sender immediately and delete this e-mail from your computer system. Although this e-mail has been checked for viruses and other defects, no responsibility can be accepted for any loss or damage from its receipt or use.
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Teresa Goodyear
Sent: 30 May 2014 12:52
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] previous query
HI Sue,
Excuse the ignorance but where in this report does it state that this affects voice or vocal chords?
I would have thought that you may possibly have more than one person with symptoms if this was a problem in the building.
Regards
Terri
Terri Goodyear
Occupational Health Advisor
CBS WREF Services
Johnson Controls on behalf of GSK
Mobile +447772 910272
Tel +441920 883853 (Ware) or +441438 790290 (Stevenage)
This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient.
Please be advised that all e-mail communication relevant to assisting in the management of the OH process will be printed and entered into the individual's OH file. This may therefore be disclosed under the Data Protection Act (1998).
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Sue Mann (NBI)
Sent: 30 May 2014 08:59
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [OCC-HEALTH] previous query
Dear All,
Some time ago I posted a query regarding a member of staff who has developed a problem with her voice etc. when working in a particular building. When she has been exposed to her office again her symptoms were worse. She has also tried sitting in other offices in the same building, some with air con and some not and unfortunately her symptoms returned although not so severe.
The person in question sent me this report and I wondered if any of you could take a few minutes to read it and let me know your thoughts?
many thanks
Sue
Mrs Sue Mann
Occupational Health Manager
JIC/IFR/NBI/TSL/TGAC
Norwich BioScience Institutes
Tel: 01603 450564
Fax: 01603 450029
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