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Hi everyone, I've been mulling a direct response to Pobric but will let things simmer while I try and finish a project. One could ask why Pobric even bothered reviewing the book at all, if he felt it wasn't worth his time? (I must admit an interest here, as I had an essay in *Art and the Internet*). It's instructive to look at his website http://www.pacpobric.com/ and read his scribblings on the weighty issues of the Art World. Draw your own conclusions! I agree with Sarah that the amnesia relating to internet art - and digital art in the broad sense - is more than irritating. How many times will it be "discovered" by the "mainstream", and how often is Hockney the example they use? Nicholas is right to ask for a conversation about the aesthetic aspects of this area. The Art Newspaper has its own provincialism and I think of it as a trade mag for Cork Street and Chelsea (NYC) - and Dubai too, no doubt. That's not to understate its importance in certain places, but we should ask ourselves why Pobric felt motivated to write a hit piece like this. I would venture that it's because he and his peers fear losing control of the "art conversation". The Internet has already forced open the boundaries of their world and they hate being disrupted by people they've never even heard of, from parts of the globe where their holy writ doesn't run. Pobric's association of the Net with the great unwashed - the contempt that he, a denizen of the rarefied heights of the New York art scene, feels for the mass who discuss cookery or cars on the Intraweb - speaks volumes. The obvious fulcrum to turn Pobric's argument on its head (as suggested by Nicholas and Marc) is the term "insularity". They hate the effrontery of outsiders entering the art world with new ideas, more diverse faces and a technology that (as is evident from the article) they barely comprehend. As Marc notes, the broader demographies of the internet are precisely what Pobric and his fellow art provincials fear the most, since their economy is predicated on the penthouse and the boardroom. More to come! Nick All best, Nick On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 4:41 PM, marc garrett <[log in to unmask] > wrote: > Hi Nicholas & all, > > > >So instead of operating in the suburbs, how could the list propose that > it is in fact the > >art world that is suburban - with its gated community paywalls, whitecube > picket fences, > >and McMansions Art Centers - instead of the other way around. > > I agree with the above & Sarah's post on the matter works for me. > > Anyway -- I'm too busy at the moment with our 'provincial' exhibition. A > collaboration with The Arts Catalyst "SEFT-1 Abandoned Railways Exploration > Probe: Modern Ruins 1:220 -- Ivan Puig and Andrés Padilla Domene" > http://go.shr.lc/1jy7AJo > > It was featured in the Guardian last week by Jonathan jones 'The > ruin-hunters who drove a car down Mexico's forgotten railways' > http://go.shr.lc/1qwbV4K > > And will be featured on the BBC news on Friday... > > Oh wait! I get it, it's seen as 'provincial' because the work successfully > reaches people, beyond their art establishment silos. Of course ;-) > > bye for now. > > marc > > > > > Sarah + all: > > > > I actually think that there's some stuff worth engaging in this... > > > > I haven't read Joanne's book, so I can't speak to the ways in which this > > piece fails as a review, but this closing statement definitely sent a > > shiver down my browser: > > > > "The problem with the book, as with internet art, is that no one has > > recognised the aesthetic problems of provincial conversation. Work by > > artists who turn inward to have hushed talks with a small coterie about > > local problems will have little effect on culture at large. McLuhan's > > global village may have its merits, but the cultural celebration of > > marginalism in art is not one of them." > > > > The reactionary in me would outright disagree with this, but I did have a > > moment of thinking bout who does address the aesthetic problems of the > > "provincial conversation" of internet art. So maybe as a way of thinking > > about outright disagreeing with Pac Pobric, the list might suggest some > > compelling counters? > > > > To that end, the metric of cultural relevance as proposed in this article > > is squarely situated in archaic models of art presentation/distribution > (I > > think that a lot of us can agree on that). So instead of operating in the > > suburbs, how could the list propose that it is in fact the art world that > > is suburban - with its gated community paywalls, whitecube picket fences, > > and McMansions Art Centers - instead of the other way around. > > > > very best > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Kelani Nichole <[log in to unmask]> > > wrote: > > > >> He is based in Brooklyn, no worries tho y'all I already invited him to > our > >> next opening at TRANSFER - Claudia Maté on July 12 :D > >> > >> > >> Bests, > >> Kelani Nichole > >> > >> Curatorial Director, TRANSFER > >> http://transfer.gallery > >> > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 9:49 AM, marc garrett < > >> [log in to unmask] > >>> wrote: > >> > >>> Wow! > >>> > >>> Where do they find these people? > >>> > >>> marc > >>> > >>> Hi CRUMBs > >>>> thought you might be interested to read this article about internet > art, > >>>> which is a thin review of the book Art and the Internet, Joanne McNeil > >> et > >>>> al, Black Dog Publishing. > >>>> > >>>> > >> http://www.theartnewspaper.com/articles/Internet-art- > fails-to-click/32983 > >>>> > >>>> It suggests that internet art takes place in the suburbs, that it is > >>>> provincial. > >>>> Use it as yet another rallying cry to improve the art history of this > >>>> field of practice. > >>>> > >>>> Sarah > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> === > >>>> > >>>> Dr. Sarah Cook > >>>> Reader / Dundee Fellow > >>>> Duncan of Jordanstone College of Art and Design > >>>> University of Dundee > >>>> 13 Perth Road DD1 4HT > >>>> > >>>> phone: 01382 385247 > >>>> email: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The University of Dundee is a registered Scottish Charity, No: > SC015096 > >>>> . > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> ---> > >>> > >>> A living - breathing - thriving networked neighbourhood - > >>> proud of free culture - claiming it with others ;) > >>> > >>> Other reviews,articles,interviews > >>> http://www.furtherfield.org/reviews.php > >>> > >>> Furtherfield - online arts community, platforms for creating, viewing, > >>> discussing and learning about experimental practices at the > >>> intersections of art, technology and social change. > >>> http://www.furtherfield.org > >>> > >>> Furtherfield Gallery - Finsbury Park (London). > >>> http://www.furtherfield.org/gallery > >>> > >>> Netbehaviour - Networked Artists List Community. > >>> http://www.netbehaviour.org > >>> > >>> http://identi.ca/furtherfield > >>> http://twitter.com/furtherfield > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > ---> > > A living - breathing - thriving networked neighbourhood - > proud of free culture - claiming it with others ;) > > Other reviews,articles,interviews > http://www.furtherfield.org/reviews.php > > Furtherfield - online arts community, platforms for creating, viewing, > discussing and learning about experimental practices at the > intersections of art, technology and social change. > http://www.furtherfield.org > > Furtherfield Gallery - Finsbury Park (London). > http://www.furtherfield.org/gallery > > Netbehaviour - Networked Artists List Community. > http://www.netbehaviour.org > > http://identi.ca/furtherfield > http://twitter.com/furtherfield > -- ================= Dr Nick Lambert (DPhil Oxon) Lecturer in Digital Art and Culture Department of History of Art & Screen Media Birkbeck, University of London 43 Gordon Square, London, WC1H 0PD www.technocultures.org.uk Mobile: 0781 0381 458