medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Gary,
I went digging in the Patrologia Latina Database, & "sub speciebus" appears in another context in Boethius' commentary on Porphyry (PL 64).  Any chance the Latin translations of Aristotle picked up Boethius' terminology & it passed into the theology by that route?
This is the only version of the terminology "sub speciebus" relating it to the Eucharist I found in the database:
PL Vol. 217
Innocentius III:
INNOCENTII III ROMANI PONTIFICIS MYSTERIORUM EVANGELICAE LEGIS ET SACRAMENTI EUCHARISTIAE LIBRI SEX. 467Kb
DE SACRO ALTARIS MYSTERIO. LIBRI SEX. 443Kb
LIBER QUARTUS 105Kb
CAPUT XVII. Quando fiat transsubstantiatio. 4Kb
...sed quia neutrum potest existere sine reliquo. Est ergo sanguis sub speciebus panis, non ex vi sacramenti, sed ex naturali concomitantia,...

I found several references to "in speciebus panis et vini" in  Rupert of Deutz.

Alger of Liege used:
ex veris speciebus panis et vini.
Tom Izbicki


From: "Jaye Procure" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 3:11:59 PM
Subject: Re: [M-R] sub speciebus

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Gary

If it's not too much trouble, could you send me the useful articles as well?  Coming from the Catholic tradition, I agree with your analysis.  I suspect that looking into Martin Luther's works one would find a preference for "in speciebus" but that is speculation on my part.

Thank you

Jaye Procure


On 29 May 2014 12:46, Gary Macy <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Dear Cate,

My educated guess is that the twelfth and early thirteenth century theologians used "in speciebus" and "sub speciebus" interchangably.  However with the a greater understanding of Aristotle's metaphysics, they would have preferred "sub speciebus" since accidents (the appearance of bread and wine) marilyn mccord adams point to and adhere in a substance.  In the case of the eucharistis presence, however, the appearances of bread and wine point to but do not adhere in the substance of the body and blood of Christ.  So, the body and blood are "under" and not "in" the substance present on the altar.  The endless discussions of how this is possible continue throughout the Middle Ages and beyond.  I recommend the articles by myself and Stephen Lahey in A Companion to the Eucharist in the Middle Ages (Brill, 2012) for a (hopefully) readable account of this development.  If you have trouble getting it, I can send scans of those two articles.  Offline, I will send a couple of useful articles on the subject.

I hope this helps,
Gary 


On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 5:45 AM, Frank Morgret <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
On 29/05/2014 5:43 AM, Cate Gunn wrote:
  Am I right in thinking that ‘sub specie/speciebus’ became the orthodox terminology after 1215 - or did ‘in’ continue to be used?  And is this difference significant?
Many thanks for any help.

Cate,

I am not a middlevilist, but have spent the last 50 years seeking to understand the early continental Reformation from 1517 to 1530.  Of course the answer to your question is pertinent to my studies.  You would do me a great favour by posting any replies not sent to the list to the rest of us?  I hope they will be fulsome.

Many, many thanks!

Frank Morgret
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