Agree 100% with real world, real people testing.
When we re-launched the Horniman site a few years back, I put a call out on facebook / twitter for testers - got around 20-25 (some regular visitors, families, some researchers, some who'd never been before etc.).
It was massively helpful and brought out a few issues we were able to address just before we launched.
It cost around £15, mainly me buying a few cups of tea for those helping out.
Adrian
-----Original Message-----
From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mike Ellis
Sent: 04 June 2014 16:23
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [MCG] Museums Association conference digital session
Steve Krug, Don't Make Me Think, 2014 edition.
http://www.sensible.com/dmmt.html
It's a great read.
In short he says to test everything with real people - don't worry about focus groups if you can't afford them: test with your mum and mates instead...
Personally I see persona development as being a different (but also
important) stage of a web project. One of the things it does is to help define *who* it is you're going to go and test stuff with.
Wondering.. how many of those collections searches/listings have ever seen any kind of user testing...?
ta
Mike
_____________________________
*Mike Ellis *
Thirty8 Digital: a small but perfectly formed digital agency:http://thirty8.co.uk <http://thirty8.co.uk/>
* My book: http://heritageweb.co.uk <http://heritageweb.co.uk/> *
> Martin Bazley <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> 4 June 2014 15:24
> Hi Jo
>
> Interesting paper and interesting points. I think personas can be very
> useful in helping organisations decide what content to present, and
> how, for different types of users. But whenever I hear someone is
> using personas (or 'user-centred design') it rings mild alarm bells
> for me because, although designing the experience / website based on
> personas' perceived needs is a great idea, the really important bit is
> to actually do user testing with real people ('actual' real people),
> and there is a tendency to assume that this has been 'done', through
> all that thinking about what specific people really, really want...
> ;-)
>
> Doing both is obviously best.
>
> Incidentally this discussion brings to mind a recent review of visitor
> segmentation models which started on the GEM (Group for Education in
> Museums) list and spread to VSG (Visitor Studies Group), including
> references to mode-of-use type schemas (along the lines of the
> 'scholars, explorers and dreamers' James referred to) such as Morris
> Hargreaves Macintyre's useful reports, and a constructive critique by
> Eric Jensen of John Falk's model, which has been very influential
> within museum and science centre learning circles for a number of
> years. It doesn't relate directly to online visitors, but some people
> might it a serendipitous link to follow up.
>
> Best
> Martin
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Martin Bazley
> Digital heritage consultant
> Martin Bazley & Associates
> 15 Margin Drive
> Wimbledon
> SW19 5HA
> 0780 3580 727
> [log in to unmask]
> www.martinbazley.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
> Pugh, Jo
> Sent: 04 June 2014 14:55
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [MCG] Museums Association conference digital session
>
> Hi Nick,
>
> A place where that has been tackled really interestingly is in James
> Davies fine 2011 presentation to museums and the web:
> http://www.museumsandtheweb.com/mw2011/papers/art_artists
>
> This - amongst other interesting ideas - discusses "perspectives" and
> divides users into scholars, explorers and dreamers who all have
> different wants and needs from the new site that it being designed.
> Even though it's based on work begun in 2008, it's still an
> interesting approach and it led directly to a change in how Tate
> represented its works online. It's also a good argument in favour of
> using personas. We can talk endlessly about "the user" and still
> increase the risk of creating exactly what you describe - designing
> either for a limited section of users, or worse a totally abstract
> "user" who isn't based firmly on any real users at all.
>
> Jo
>
>
> __________________________________________________
>
> Jo Pugh
> Research Engineer | The National Archives / University of York tel.
> +44 (0)20 8392 5330 x2292 The National Archives, Kew, Richmond, Surrey
> TW9 4DU www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
> Nick Poole
> Sent: 04 June 2014 14:39
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [MCG] Museums Association conference digital session
>
> Hi Simon,
>
> It sounds like a really interesting session. I'm not responding to
> suggest a speaker, but more to raise a perspective.
>
> I've recently been working with an artists and illustrator who was
> tasked with identifying a set of iconic objects from the websites of a
> number of museums and drawing pictures of them.
>
> Watching their mounting frustration was a real education in terms of
> the difference between how collections are presented on museum
> websites and how different types of user might expect to interact with
> them.
>
> Put simply, the websites weren't designed to support the use my artist
> friend was trying to put them to.
>
> All of which is my way of asking whether it might be a useful addition
> to the session to find people who habitually use museum websites for
> different purposes (planning a visit, entertaining the kids, doing
> some personal research, finding pictures for their homework etc) and
> getting them to talk about their perspective on the perfect site?
>
> All best,
>
> Nick
>
> Nick Poole
> Chief Executive Officer
> Collections Trust
>
> Join the Collections Trust's Collections Management LinkedIn group -
> 7300 collections professionals worldwide!
>
> New! Join the Collections Trust's Digital Asset Management subgroup -
> insight, discussions and expertise about Digital Asset Management in
> Museums!
>
> Follow us on twitter: http://www.twitter.com/collectiontrust
>
> Visit Collections Trust online
> www.collectionstrust.org.uk
> www.collectionslink.org.uk
> www.culturegrid.org.uk
>
> Company Registration No: 1300565 Registered Charity No: 273984
> Registered Office: Collections Trust, WC 209, Natural History Museum,
> Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
> Simon Stephens
> Sent: 04 June 2014 14:10
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [MCG] Museums Association conference digital session
>
> Hi MCGers,
>
> I am putting together a digital session at this year's Museums
> Association conference in Cardiff. The session takes place in the
> afternoon on Thursday 9 October. It has the title of "What Makes the
> Perfect Museum Website?" and the aim is to give delegates a chance to
> think about how their own websites work and what could be changed and
> improved.
>
> As part of this, we are hoping to get two speakers at the start to
> give a 10-minute presentation each. We were hoping that one person
> would speak about the importance of using museum websites from a
> marketing point of view, with a primary focus of driving visitors
> through the door of the museum, while the other speaker would look at
> sites from a curatorial or educational side - i.e talking more about
> online content and community. We'd be interested in hearing about the
> ways these approaches differ, how they can work together, and the
> various challenges each raises.
>
> If any MCGers are interested in speaking at the session or have
> suggestions for speakers please get in touch.
>
> Cheers
>
> Simon
>
> Simon Stephens
> Deputy Editor
> Museums journal
> T: 020 7566 7820
> E: [log in to unmask]
>
> ****************************************************************
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>
> This email was scanned by the Government Secure Intranet anti-virus
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>
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>
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> Pugh, Jo <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> 4 June 2014 14:54
> Hi Nick,
>
> A place where that has been tackled really interestingly is in James
> Davies fine 2011 presentation to museums and the web:
> http://www.museumsandtheweb.com/mw2011/papers/art_artists
>
> This - amongst other interesting ideas - discusses "perspectives" and
> divides users into scholars, explorers and dreamers who all have
> different wants and needs from the new site that it being designed.
> Even though it's based on work begun in 2008, it's still an
> interesting approach and it led directly to a change in how Tate
> represented its works online. It's also a good argument in favour of
> using personas. We can talk endlessly about "the user" and still
> increase the risk of creating exactly what you describe - designing
> either for a limited section of users, or worse a totally abstract
> "user" who isn't based firmly on any real users at all.
>
> Jo
>
>
> __________________________________________________
>
> Jo Pugh
> Research Engineer | The National Archives / University of York tel.
> +44 (0)20 8392 5330 x2292 The National Archives, Kew, Richmond, Surrey
> TW9 4DU www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
> Nick Poole
> Sent: 04 June 2014 14:39
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [MCG] Museums Association conference digital session
>
> Hi Simon,
>
> It sounds like a really interesting session. I'm not responding to
> suggest a speaker, but more to raise a perspective.
>
> I've recently been working with an artists and illustrator who was
> tasked with identifying a set of iconic objects from the websites of a
> number of museums and drawing pictures of them.
>
> Watching their mounting frustration was a real education in terms of
> the difference between how collections are presented on museum
> websites and how different types of user might expect to interact with
> them.
>
> Put simply, the websites weren't designed to support the use my artist
> friend was trying to put them to.
>
> All of which is my way of asking whether it might be a useful addition
> to the session to find people who habitually use museum websites for
> different purposes (planning a visit, entertaining the kids, doing
> some personal research, finding pictures for their homework etc) and
> getting them to talk about their perspective on the perfect site?
>
> All best,
>
> Nick
>
> Nick Poole
> Chief Executive Officer
> Collections Trust
>
> Join the Collections Trust's Collections Management LinkedIn group -
> 7300 collections professionals worldwide!
>
> New! Join the Collections Trust's Digital Asset Management subgroup -
> insight, discussions and expertise about Digital Asset Management in
> Museums!
>
> Follow us on twitter: http://www.twitter.com/collectiontrust
>
> Visit Collections Trust online
> www.collectionstrust.org.uk
> www.collectionslink.org.uk
> www.culturegrid.org.uk
>
> Company Registration No: 1300565 Registered Charity No: 273984
> Registered Office: Collections Trust, WC 209, Natural History Museum,
> Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
> Simon Stephens
> Sent: 04 June 2014 14:10
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [MCG] Museums Association conference digital session
>
> Hi MCGers,
>
> I am putting together a digital session at this year's Museums
> Association conference in Cardiff. The session takes place in the
> afternoon on Thursday 9 October. It has the title of "What Makes the
> Perfect Museum Website?" and the aim is to give delegates a chance to
> think about how their own websites work and what could be changed and
> improved.
>
> As part of this, we are hoping to get two speakers at the start to
> give a 10-minute presentation each. We were hoping that one person
> would speak about the importance of using museum websites from a
> marketing point of view, with a primary focus of driving visitors
> through the door of the museum, while the other speaker would look at
> sites from a curatorial or educational side - i.e talking more about
> online content and community. We'd be interested in hearing about the
> ways these approaches differ, how they can work together, and the
> various challenges each raises.
>
> If any MCGers are interested in speaking at the session or have
> suggestions for speakers please get in touch.
>
> Cheers
>
> Simon
>
> Simon Stephens
> Deputy Editor
> Museums journal
> T: 020 7566 7820
> E: [log in to unmask]
>
> ****************************************************************
> website: http://museumscomputergroup.org.uk/
> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/ukmcg
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/museumscomputergroup
> [un]subscribe: http://museumscomputergroup.org.uk/email-list/
> ****************************************************************
>
> ****************************************************************
> website: http://museumscomputergroup.org.uk/
> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/ukmcg
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/museumscomputergroup
> [un]subscribe: http://museumscomputergroup.org.uk/email-list/
> ****************************************************************
>
> This email was scanned by the Government Secure Intranet anti-virus
> service supplied by Vodafone in partnership with Symantec. (CCTM
> Certificate Number 2009/09/0052.) In case of problems, please call
> your organisations IT Helpdesk.
> Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored
> and/or recorded for legal purposes.
> Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------
>
>
> National Archives Disclaimer
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for
> the use of the
> individual(s) to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended
> recipient and have received this email in error, please notify the
> sender and delete the email.
> Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message and
> attachments that do not relate to the official business of The
> National Archives are neither given nor endorsed by it.
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------
>
> ****************************************************************
> website: http://museumscomputergroup.org.uk/
> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/ukmcg
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/museumscomputergroup
> [un]subscribe: http://museumscomputergroup.org.uk/email-list/
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****************************************************************
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